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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

1st Impact Wrench Purchase, please help

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joe g

11-19-2003 09:42:12




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Hello everyone, I am 20 years old and currently in a vocational school on my way to becoming an automotive tech. I am slowely but surely building my tool collection, and it has come time for me to purchase my first air impact wrench. For starters, the gun will be 1/2" drive, and primarily used for tire changing at first, and as time goes on and I am learning more i'm sure the gun will be used on other automotive jobs.

Ive used a light duty snap on gun, wich really didnt impress me much for the price they run, and another rather light duty ingersoll rand gun, which worked well. I am still not sure of what kind of duty gun I should be in the market for, but financially I am limited to spending about $130. From what ive read around here and heard from others, IR guns would be my best bet for performance:price. Here are some of the options ive come across, and all of the prices I am listing are from Harbor Freight, which seems to have the best deals.


$80 -
Ingersoll Rand 235

3.75 CFM avg. Working torque range: 25-310 ft. lbs. Ultimate torque in reverse: 425 ft. lbs. Weight: 5.125lbs
***this is the IR tool ive used. It worked well for tires, but didnt seem to have an abundance of power in reserve if i were to need it.

$120 -
Ingersoll Rand 231-H

450 ft. lbs. maximum torque Maximum speed: 8000 RPM, 1200 BPM Weight: 5.8lbs

$85 -
Powerforce by Ingersoll Rand PF800

6 vane motor delivers 1200 blows per minute 8000 RPM free speed
Torque: 450 ft. lbs
***I know little about this gun except the fact that it has different name, but is made by IR. It seems to be priced lower then the rest of their line, anyone with info on this gun please respond.

$88 -
Chicago Pneumatic CP-734H

3.75 CFM avg. Working torque range: 25-310 ft. lbs. Ultimate torque in reverse: 425 ft. lbs. Weight: 5.125lbs
***Ive heard alot of good stuff about this gun on this board.

$90 -
Earthquake 2623-1VGA

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=2623
Twin hammer
Maximum torque: 625 ft. lbs.; Torque range: 40 to 400 ft. lbs.; Impacts: 1200 BPM; Free speed: 6600 RPM forward, 6800 RPM reverse Weight: 6.6lbs
***Cheap sounding company, and although its not stated by harbor freight, the picture shows "centrel pneumatic" on the gun along with the earthquake logo. Big power in the specs, but again I know nothing about it.

So please anyone with some usefull info on these guns, or some advice for me, please respond.

Thank You

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joe g

11-22-2003 21:03:46




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 Re: 1st Impact Wrench Purchase, please help in reply to joe g, 11-19-2003 09:42:12  
third party image

Id like to thank everyone for the help they gave me, and I made my decision. I purchases an IR 231c from ebay. Got a very nice deal, 75$ brand new. Again thanks for all the opinions, I think ill be happy with my purchase.



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JPD

11-22-2003 13:14:10




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 Re: 1st Impact Wrench Purchase, please help in reply to joe g, 11-19-2003 09:42:12  
I own a Snap-On IM6100 1/2"drive impact I am very pleased with what a can do with this impact. For the farm equipment dealership I work for I don't bother getting the 3/4 drive impact unless I have to.



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Cliff Neubauer

11-20-2003 16:24:22




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 Re: 1st Impact Wrench Purchase, please help in reply to joe g, 11-19-2003 09:42:12  
In our farm shop we have always used a cheap $30 CH 1/2" drive impact and a cheap CH 3/4" drive as well. Last winter we bought an IR 2131a impact wrench and we seldom use the 3/4" drive now because of how powerful the IR is. Make sure you have a good 3/8" air hose and the more air pressure you air compressor will put out the better (up to about 175 psi). We have some Craftsman impact sockets but also use regular Craftsman sockets once in a while and have yet to break one even with the IR.

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D.L.

11-20-2003 06:28:57




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 Re: 1st Impact Wrench Purchase, please help in reply to joe g, 11-19-2003 09:42:12  
Hey Joe, I work for a nation-wide supplier of WOODWORKING tools and equipment (although I'm a machinist and personally focus more on metal working tools)... Harbor Freight is one of our competitors (although a minor one) in the woodworking tool arena. Having spoken with a variety of our customers who have done business with HF, and having studied their catalogs, I know their ploys. First, you must read each item descritpion CAREFULLY! HF sells a GREAT DEAL of reconditioned equipment. Most of this has been refurbished by the manufacturer and carries some sort of warranty, but you need to be aware of what you're spending your hard-earned money on. Secondly, although a tool carries a recognizable brand name, (Chicago Pneumatic) which may have been in existance for quite some time, tools currently sold under some of those names are now nothing more than cheap junk made in China. As an example, some wrenches claim incredible levels of power, but make no mention of the amount of air (CFM) required to make that power. Some of the performance wrenches require so much air, a normal compressor won't run them. If you plan to only use a tool like this in a commercial shop (that usually has a huge compressor), you're probably alright, but if you'd ever need to use the wrench at home, you'd be out of luck. Finally, MAKE SURE you can obtain service AND replacement parts for any tool you buy. That's another problem with Harbor Freight... they'll sell you the tool but when you have a problem, they refer you to the manufacturer... some have "middle men" in the US, so you're at least dealing with someone who speaks english; others do not. It can be pretty frustrating to have an expensive tool sitting on the shelf, unusable, for lack of a $2.00 part.
If I were you, I'd continue to save for a few (weeks, months, ???) and buy a quality tool that will give you the service you expect. IR has a huge line of air tools. They cover all levels of price and performance. And, they'll be able to help if you ever need service. To me, probably the best investment!!!

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joe g

11-20-2003 10:18:05




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 Re: Re: 1st Impact Wrench Purchase, please help in reply to D.L., 11-20-2003 06:28:57  
thanx for the heads up DL, will take that into consideration



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dick

11-19-2003 21:26:08




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 Re: 1st Impact Wrench Purchase, please help in reply to joe g, 11-19-2003 09:42:12  
I use an IR 231 every day at a MACK dealership very depedable. I donot recomend the IR 244 motor shafts break to frequently.



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Ken C.

11-19-2003 18:54:13




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 Re: 1st Impact Wrench Purchase, please help in reply to joe g, 11-19-2003 09:42:12  
Hi Joe, I have two CP 1/2" dr wrenches, an old 734 that is a bit "wimpy' and a 746 that is a strong wrench. Have used both of them hard and have no complaints. Also own two IR wrenches, a 2112 3/8" that is a little power house and a 2141 3/4 drive I am not so proud of. In the shop I work out of, between us I think we have one of everything. Buy a common brand you can get parts and service for if needed and keep it oiled. As for impact sockets, I have relied on SK and Proto mostly but I bought a set of Ingersoll Rand 3/4 deep impacts that have been a pleasant surprise - real good sockets for the money. Have used the 1 1/8" hard changing ditcher teeth and it still looks like new.

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joe g

11-19-2003 18:07:16




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 Re: 1st Impact Wrench Purchase, please help in reply to joe g, 11-19-2003 09:42:12  
Thanks to everyone for responding so quickly with their input. Alot of good information for me to think about, it will help me decide. I dont think i will be buying a more expensive gun as reccomended by a few such as the 2131. At this point I cant justify the cost, and neither can my wallet. I take care of my tools very well, and id rather spend the differenc on impact sockets, maybe even enough left over for an air rachet. I understand that you get what you pay for, and I'm prepaired to buy another wrench down the line if need be.

Anyhow, anyone out there got any info on the earthquake gun? Only reason i ask about it is because i saw a post on another forum by someone who said it was just a rebadged IR thundergun. It looks exactly the same in the pictures, has the same specs, etc... But if anyone can affirm this that would be great, i realize tool manufacturers do this sometimes. Also that powerforce gun that is labled "by ingersol rand" is interesting, big price drop when compared to their similarly specd non powerhouse gun.

again thnx for the info everyone

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John Garner

11-19-2003 19:13:29




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 Re: Re: 1st Impact Wrench Purchase, please help in reply to joe g, 11-19-2003 18:07:16  
joe g --

I would agree with a statement that "You don't often get more than you pay for.", but the statement "You get what you pay for." is total BS most often spouted by pushy salemen trying to sell a product or service for far more than it is worth. A higher price does not necessarily mean a higher quality product or service.

Every day all around the world, millions of people get less than they pay for in some way or another.

You might consider asking the same question at Mark Kw's Inside Tools bulletin board at>Link

John>Link

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joe g

11-19-2003 22:28:37




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 Re: Re: Re: 1st Impact Wrench Purchase, please hel in reply to John Garner, 11-19-2003 19:13:29  
John, i understand your point. I guess all around we never really get what we pay for, we pay too much for everything. Seldom do you get an amazing deal on a product without comprimising somewhere. Since you seem to think good deals are out there to be had, what do you think about this "earthquake" gun from harbor freight, which has the same advertised specs as the IR thunder gun (625ftlb), at 100 less the price. I have read somewhere else that it is the same gun, with a "central pneumatic" scratch cover on it. They sure look the same. If you care to take a look, or anyone else for that matter, the link is on my original post.

btw, thnx for that other site referal

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RT

11-20-2003 06:54:52




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: 1st Impact Wrench Purchase, please in reply to joe g, 11-19-2003 22:28:37  
Joe I have both. The Earthquake and the Thundergun are pretty much the same. I use the Earthquake the most and have had NO problems with it. just like any other air tool keep it oiled and it will give years of service. RT



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jeff from IN

11-19-2003 17:19:20




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 Re: 1st Impact Wrench Purchase, please help in reply to joe g, 11-19-2003 09:42:12  
HI JOE
In my 25 plus years of turning wrenches i have blown up ever impact out there, for the money an I/R will give you the best return on your investment. Also remember to invest in air gun oil to protect that investment in your future.
One other resource for a future tech is a sit for techs only and future techs, enjoy
www.Iatn.net



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jailkeeper

11-19-2003 17:16:46




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 Re: 1st Impact Wrench Purchase, please help in reply to joe g, 11-19-2003 09:42:12  
If you're going to be an auto tech, spend the extra money now and get a GOOD gun. I've got a MAC tools gun now and it's a powerhouse. If you buy a cheaper one, get an Ingersoll Rand. They are better than a CP or those other cheap ones.

Again, if you're an auto tech, DON'T get the extended shank for changing tires. When you need to use it pulling a transmission, exhaust manifolds, or cylinder head, that extended shank will probably screw you out of 2" of much needed clearance.

Buy your sockets at Sears. They hold up as well as any other brand and they won't break your bank account.

As a mechanic, I'd never depend on Taiwan tools to help me make a living. They just don't last using them everyday. Maybe for a farmer or homeowner they're ok, but not a professional.

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kjm

11-19-2003 17:15:49




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 Re: 1st Impact Wrench Purchase, please help in reply to joe g, 11-19-2003 09:42:12  
The best we have found in the tire shop are IR 231 extended anvel,they get very hard use and very little service and we run 175psi on the line and we get 2 years out of them. The last time I tried a differant gun (NAPA)I was told they were a better gun ,I bought two they both went to crap im 30 days,it`s been almost 2 years and they still haven`t returned them to me from the service center.Look around I have pd. as little as 115.00 and as high as 135.00 lol kjm

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Jd-Tractor

11-19-2003 16:41:19




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 Re: 1st Impact Wrench Purchase, please help in reply to joe g, 11-19-2003 09:42:12  
Check with tools unlimited from Ohio they have better tools and they do stand behind anything you buy.If you buy something you don't like or you feel is not a good deal they don't give you any greif returning it.www.toolsunlimited.com I have purchased much from them and used to run a equipment shop



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Jd-tractor

11-19-2003 16:44:41




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 Re: Re: 1st Impact Wrench Purchase, please help in reply to Jd-Tractor, 11-19-2003 16:41:19  
Also try to get a gun with an extended shank you will be glad you did if you are using it primarily changing tires



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Kurt : Ky

11-19-2003 14:41:18




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 Re: 1st Impact Wrench Purchase, please help in reply to joe g, 11-19-2003 09:42:12  
i have a Ingersoll Rand 231 that i have used at two dealerships and now at the Co-Op. I bought it back in 1990 use it about every day. alot of hours on it.



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bill Oakes NY

11-19-2003 12:27:37




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 Re: 1st Impact Wrench Purchase, please help in reply to joe g, 11-19-2003 09:42:12  
Hi Joe,

Craftsman markets an IR 2131 with their name on it. I bought mine off ebay, from a guy that seemed to have an endless supply of them. Paided $110 for it. It works very well.



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John Garner

11-19-2003 12:17:53




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 Re: 1st Impact Wrench Purchase, please help in reply to joe g, 11-19-2003 09:42:12  
joe g --

The "classic" 1/2-inch drive pneumatic impact wrenches are the IR 235 and the slightly-stronger IR 244. I believe that they are both still made in the US. I don't remember ever hearing anyone complain about either one of these wrenches; can't say the same about IR's top-of-the-line 2131.

There are some very good "IR clones" being imported, and I hear that Harbor Freight's "Central Pneumatic PROFESSIONAL" model and Campbell-Hausfeld's top-of-the-line model (the one with the three-year guarantee, selling for about $75 at Wal-Mart) are amongst them. Unfortunately, I don't know model numbers for either one of these.

If I was in your shoes, I'd go with one of the Taiwan-built imports and spend the price difference on several (standard and deep in both inch and metric) full sets of Taiwan-made impact sockets.

Harbor Freight's standard delivery is S-L-O-W, but their Pittsburgh Forge impact sockets are one of the best values on the market.

John

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Dr.EVIL

11-19-2003 10:01:33




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 Re: 1st Impact Wrench Purchase, please help in reply to joe g, 11-19-2003 09:42:12  
I have a CP 734 I bought about 20 yrs ago. Haven't used it a WHOLE lot but some. Son always complained about it being gutless and that He was going to get an I-R 2131. Well, I'm not sure of the model but Northern Hyd. had a I-R ThunderGun plus the "Lightning" Air ratchet set for $240. He's getting them and a set of 1/2" deep impact sockets for X-mas & His b-day, both coming up in the next 5 weeks. Don't worry about air consumption, You'll never have enough air or the need for 100% duty cycle anyhow. Buy one big enough, either C-P, or I-R and You'll never have to buy another one. You can get them rebuilt or fixed anywhere. C-P has recently introduced a 600-650#/ft 1/2" impact to compete with the I-R 2131, It's C-P 749 or something like that.

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Alvin n Ms.

11-19-2003 11:09:22




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 Re: Re: 1st Impact Wrench Purchase, please help in reply to Dr.EVIL, 11-19-2003 10:01:33  
Hey, did I tell you that you can buy the IR 2131a at MAX tool for $150. 1-800-max-deal or go online to catalog. They gurantee not to be undersold on IR products. I have been pleased, dealing with them.



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Alvin n Ms.

11-19-2003 09:55:55




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 Re: 1st Impact Wrench Purchase, please help in reply to joe g, 11-19-2003 09:42:12  
I have an IR 2131A that does a great job. It removes bolts from some military trucks that I previously used a 1" impact for. Just skip the 3/4 size.



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