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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

Compressor recievers and more? OH ROGER!!!

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DaveCA

11-02-2003 06:29:21




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Looking for a portable (hand carry) compressor mostly for using a small nailer. I want it to last 20 years or longer with light weekly but not every day use. Need it to run on a 110v, 15A breaker, and oil lubed cast iron cylinder. I will use on jobsite some, so need it to be OK with OSHA. Are the smaller 6 inch or less diameter tanks free from the tank certification/inspection requirement? I see mention of ASME NB4, ASME, OSHA recognized etc.. Is anyone familiar with what OSHA requires for these tanks? I am looking at DeWalt D55153 with 2 small tanks vs D55155 with one larger tank should I be looking at some other brand? Would be nice if it was quiet as well.

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DaveCA. Thanks Guys!!!

11-02-2003 15:25:51




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 Re: Compressor recievers and more? OH ROGER!!! in reply to DaveCA, 11-02-2003 06:29:21  
Thanks guys for the quick answers.
I went and looked at the two DeWalts' I mentioned. The Single tank unit is the one I prefer, because it looks more bulletproof, has a cast Iron cyl and it carries easier because the handle is closer to you. The twin tank is the one I'll get though to not have to deal with the tank certification. hopefully the aluminum cyl has an iron sleeve. I looked for the requirerments for these tanks and only came up with the reference to ASME regs priced at $8,3000.00!!!
I really appreciate the help, It falls in line with all the indications I have seen.

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Rod (NH)

11-02-2003 16:00:01




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 Re: Re: Compressor recievers and more? OH ROGER!!! in reply to DaveCA. Thanks Guys!!!, 11-02-2003 15:25:51  
Dave,

Wow, I don't know where your information about $8300 comes from but something is WAY out of whack with it. The difference between an ASME tank and a non-ASME tank of the same capacity is mostly with the quality assurance and documentation. The materials and actual fabrication would only be marginally more costly. The D55155 has a 4 gallon ASME tank with it and is "OHSA Recognized" unless DeWalt is misrepresenting the thing. That's unlikely. The tank should therefore have an ASME plate tack welded to it and you should not have to worry at all about any additional "certification", even under the OSHA regs. Unless I totally misunderstand your situation, you should do just fine with the D55155 if that is the model you prefer.

Rod

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DaveCA

11-02-2003 18:28:54




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 Re: Re: Re: Compressor recievers and more? OH ROGE in reply to Rod (NH), 11-02-2003 16:00:01  
hey Rod, I think you misunderstood my statemenmt. The OSHA standard, as I understand, refers to ASME BPVC.1988. I couldn't find any quotes from any ASME BPVC. Perhaps I was wrong looking for the latest update.

OSHA site offers nothing but reference to ASME. ASME site offers the following:
"PRICING AND ORDERING INFORMATION: The Complete 2001 International Boiler and Pressure Vessel Code Order No. SX0230 $8,500.00 (order online)"

Yes, (at least some places I have worked) OSHA requires an initial air reciever inspection/certification and every 5 yrs thereafter. This inspection/certification is charged for and conducted by OSHA Pressure Vessels Unit. Fine$ are in order for neglecting to partake of this $ervice.
I'll contact my local OSHA pressure vessels unit this week and attempt to get the correct, applicable ASME info. Thanks again.

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Rod (NH)

11-02-2003 20:39:14




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Compressor recievers and more? OH in reply to DaveCA, 11-02-2003 18:28:54  
Dave,

Interesting discussion. I didn't know OSHA bureaucrats were into pressure vessel safety inspections :o). I know the US Navy requires (as a matter of policy) what is called "in service inspection and certification" of certain pressure vessels in their shore facilities. This is accomplished on a regularly scheduled basis by specially qualified inspectors, typically with commissions from the National Board of Boiler and Pressure Vessel Inspectors. Insurance companies would also probably have routine safety inspection requirements for certain pressure vessels under their policies. I would expect them to also use inspectors with National Board commissions as the National Board is the recognized inspection agency for both boilers and pressure vessels in the US.

The ASME B&PV Code is indeed expensive and it is updated on a quarterly basis. The $8500 sounds about right for that, including updates for about four years as I recall (the code is republished in full about every four years). It is a huge document covering about a dozen large volumes. Only a relatively small portion of it covers unfired pressure vessels (sectionVIII). The code ONLY covers design and construction of new vessels. It does NOT cover repair or any type of installation or inspection after construction. I don't believe you would find any information in it that would be helpful to you in that respect. Also trying to keep existing hardware up-to-date with a changing code is an exercise in futility, so you would want the edition required in the OSHA standard (1968) and not the most recent version.

I would be very interested in knowing to what extent OSHA requires continuing "certifications" of such relatively minor things as small, portable air compressor receivers used to supply nailers and similar functions in the construction industry. They certainly may, and it would not surprise me, but I cannot locate any reference to it on their site. Qualified inspections of such a specialized nature do not come cheaply. It could be less expensive to buy new every time rather than go through a recertification process. If you find out any particular details on this, could you please post back some followup information?

Thanks,
Rod

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DaveCA

11-02-2003 21:44:57




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Compressor recievers and more? in reply to Rod (NH), 11-02-2003 20:39:14  
Rod, I'll make this brief as I can. Requirements may vary within each state. I am in California. I checked online with CA Department of Industrial Relations. Link is provided below. It's too lengthy to relate it all here. The way I read it for my circumstance is I have to get an ASME tagged tank and being a portable, it has to be inspected every three years (every5 for stationary tanks) and obtain a "permit to operate" before placing in service on job, also requires the current permit to remain attached to unit. I believe (permitting) exception is made for tanks of 1.5 cu ft or less, thats awfully small, as you know. The law allowing collection of fee for inspection and providing permit may have been repealed, I'm not sure, but I'll find out. I do know that with all the pressure vessels around, the inspector I have dealt with is a very busy fellow.

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oops dropped the link, it

11-02-2003 21:51:24




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Compressor recievers and m in reply to DaveCA, 11-02-2003 21:44:57  
http://www.dir.ca.gov/Title8/sb1a3.html



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Rod (NH)

11-03-2003 09:20:19




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Compressor recievers a in reply to oops dropped the link, it, 11-02-2003 21:51:24  
Wow again. I knew the arm of the law was long but didn't know it was THAT long. I would guess that the 1.5 CF (11.22 gal) exemption would apply to the 4 gal tank on the unit you prefer but best you verify with your local authority.

After reading your link, I looked up the laws in my own state. Lo and behold, a similar periodic certification ("permit") process exists but is less restrictive, not surprisingly, than that in California. The exemption point here is 5 CF (37.4 gal) at pressures less than 250 psig.

I guess anyone using compressed air storage tanks, especially in a commercial situation, needs to check out their local laws in addition to everything else. They may not only need a coded tank to begin with but also need periodic "permits" from state bureaucrats to use it. They may be a criminal and not know it yet! Goes to reinforce my sympathies with the Libertarians :o).

You always learn something new on these boards. Thanks again Dave.

Rod

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DaveCA

11-04-2003 05:29:43




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Compressor recieve in reply to Rod (NH), 11-03-2003 09:20:19  
WOW on me. I didn't stop to do the conversion last night, 1.5 cu ft is more gallons than I had imagined! Yes, it seems this small tank is not required to have a permit for operation where there are employees, but i will make the phone call to get inspectors input on ASME tagged tank vs non. I have learned the hard way that inspectors don't always understand all the laws they are enforcing, or may simply interpret it differently than the next guy. Thanks again Rod.

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Roger

11-03-2003 12:53:54




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Compressor recieve in reply to Rod (NH), 11-03-2003 09:20:19  
Last going off in Alberta, the whole tank inspection thing became a bit of a scam. The boiler inspection branch was privatized, and now basically call the shots. Whearas the gov't basically left everyone alone (isn't that a switch), the private guys decided to become harda$$es. They demanded that every tank we ordered in from Ontario (where they were built and certified) had to be recertified once they arrived at our shop. So everytime we built up a new comressor unit, the inspector had to come in and stamp a few letters and numbers on it to show it had be certifed. $60 please. Not bad for 10 minutes work. Of course, $60 wasn't enough to scuttle the order, but it did irk me to see a brand new tank be "recertified" before it had even been put into service. We also we required upon request to provide a list of all of our customers to whon we had supplied any tanks for over the last 3 years previous to the privatization. They could shut you down if you didn't comply. Talk about having a sword over your head. What really irked me was going from site to site and seeing some truly dangerous tanks and boilers. One guy was running a tank with a 3 inch split from the saddle weld down the side of the tank. I told him it was dangerous and it had to be B-pressure welded. No problem, he'd get his friend to do it. Next time I came back, there was a big square patch welded all over the split. It may ave been welded correctly, but seeing as how he stiffed us on a $1500 bill, I somehow doubt it. The condition of most boilers in dry cleaning shops also left a lot to be desired.

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DaveCA

11-04-2003 05:42:27




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Compressor rec in reply to Roger, 11-03-2003 12:53:54  
This is all very interesting Roger, including that you are from the Great White North. I was imagining canadians all just flew by the seat of yer pants. Just like here. I appreciate your continuos help.



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chris smith

11-02-2003 14:42:47




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 Re: Compressor recievers and more? OH ROGER!!! in reply to DaveCA, 11-02-2003 06:29:21  
I got the dewalt/emglo. I believe it is the d55155 model. the four gallon single tank, fancy roll cage, etc. I paid like right around 300 for mine. Normally they are 329 to like 369. This is one sweet compressor. Works good, kinda heavy(60 lbs.??) but worth it. Would never buy oiless again. I would look at these, the pumps are the same as the old emglos, and i have heard them lasting contractors .ike 10 or 15 years, so your light use ought to get you thirty years Hope this helps!!

Chris

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Rod (NH)

11-02-2003 11:37:20




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 Re: Compressor recievers and more? OH ROGER!!! in reply to DaveCA, 11-02-2003 06:29:21  
Hi Dave,

OSHA Standards, 29CFR 1910.169 and 1926.306; Air Receivers, requires all such tanks to be constructed to the standards of the ASME Boiler and Pressure Vessel Code, Section VIII, Pressure Vessels, 1968 edition and adopts that code by reference. I don't have that version of the code available to me but the 1971 edition exempts (among others) vessels having an inside diameter of six inches or less with no limitation on pressure. That being the case, I don't think you will find ASME plates on the small, portable air tanks typically supplied with compressors used for nailers, etc in the construction industry. If they are over six inches however (plus over 15 psig), ASME compliance would be required (if OSHA applies in your situation) even if the local political jurisdiction (state or city) has not adopted the code by law for such tanks.

Caveat: This is a friendly opinion and is NOT a professional determination. Other requirements may apply.

third party image Rod

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Roger

11-02-2003 09:25:24




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 Re: Compressor recievers and more? OH ROGER!!! in reply to DaveCA, 11-02-2003 06:29:21  
I don't think any tanks under 20 gal need to be certified, but that probably depends on local laws. Go with the Dewalt. It is an Emglo, which is a good machine.



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