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OT: Computer network installer JOB?

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Rod MI

10-27-2003 08:14:41




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Hi I would like to work as a computer network installer and maintainer. What would the job title be for a entry level job in this field? What credentials (certifications) would I need to start with? Would A+ certification help or not worth the time? Please Email me if you wont to contact me of list at junkrk40risk*hotmail.com THANKS! Rod




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TimC

10-29-2003 09:53:52




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 Re: OT: Computer network installer JOB? in reply to Rod MI, 10-27-2003 08:14:41  
As with any job attitude is the most important. I don't know if there is a job out there that would make me really happy because i get bored easy. However, I do enjoying making people happy. I go out of my way sometimes and it pays off. I understand what these guys are saying about thankless, underpaid, out the door next week but,,, Moving from telecommunication 6 years ago to IT after 16 years was the smartest thing I have ever done. I work for a 500 + bed hospital that is licensed up to 700 +. I am usually on call 10 months out of the year because i choose to. I am not certified in anything except a few system we no longer use. Have been to a few schools. My official title is network analyst I have already made over 50k this year. Not bragging but being in the right market helps. The most important thing is ATTITUDE. By going out of my way to be the best computer guru, goopher, or anything anyone wants me to be i feel like i have secured my job. When you make people feel like their computer is the most important computer on campus then if you do screw up the say "hey, thats ok" because they know you care about them as a person. What ever you do, do it better and faster than anyone else and make somebody smile along the way and you will eventually rise to the top.

P.S. Read Dale Carnige "How to Win Friends and Influence People."

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Rod MI

10-27-2003 23:20:35




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 Re: OT: Computer network installer JOB? in reply to Rod MI, 10-27-2003 08:14:41  
Thanks everyone for the posts! It sounds like the Die Making trade after 7 years of it I ran as fare away as I could. Now its hard to find a job in this area. I don't wont to get into that again sow I better think more about the IT field. I'm looking for a now career but don't now what to do.



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F14

10-27-2003 15:57:33




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 Re: OT: Computer network installer JOB? in reply to Rod MI, 10-27-2003 08:14:41  
Well, compared to the folks that have posted, I was a VERY small fish in a microscopic pond, working as a non-certified (read: self-taught) IT manager for a school system. I made decent money ($20 an hour, but with an annual cap)and had good job security. After nearly 7 years, I bailed out.

Unless you are a MAJOR stress junkie, and enjoy working in a job where you are ignored when things work and berated when they don't, and PARTICULARLY enjoy not having any free time evenings and weekends because some jerkoff can't seem to resist opening infected emails, my advice is to RUN. Run like the wind...

I'm now working as a part time mechanic for half what I was getting at the school, and I've never been happier.

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Matt

10-27-2003 15:41:32




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 Re: OT: Computer network installer JOB? in reply to Rod MI, 10-27-2003 08:14:41  
-- A+ and Network+ certificates are good.
However, the hardest thing will be getting your foot in the door no matter what.

Temping got me into my first real "career" -- temped for a contractor, and the company hired me after the contractor ended my temp work (contractor wanted to hire me too!)

Get some certifications, but you should also see about any temp oppurtonities. Favorite "IT" job ever came after being laid off for 6 months (early 2000), took a temp job refurbing high-end scanners. Did three a day, pretty much 99% mechanical work. Wasn't even looking for a new job when my current position came up on a resume I had sent months earlier, and quite frankly the pay I couldn't pass. Whether the stress was worth it, I don't know. But had I stayed a temp bankruptcy would've been a serious option, but now I can buy toys like my tractor.

If you have a temp company in your area, ask them what computer skills they have customers looking for regularly.

I have some *very* advanced skills now, but even looking at the job market it's nothing like 1997-1999.

BTW, one of my big personal goals (already behind on it though!) is to get by CDL-B driver's license this winter. I can take the training through my volunteer fire company (in cooperation with the town Highway Department). I look at the CDL-B as giving me a "hard" skill that's usually much more consistently in demand than "soft" tech skills. If I ever get laid off, or when I finally have had enough of these !@#!@% !@#!@ W#$@#$@ machines it gives me something to fall back on.

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ATW/WA

10-27-2003 14:08:09




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 Re: OT: Computer network installer JOB? in reply to Rod MI, 10-27-2003 08:14:41  
Rod; What the others had to say; and I respect them.

BUT..... No matter what those other guys say, it isn't that good.

What ever you do, make sure you can derive some satisfaction from a days work.

ATW/WA



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JOHN (LA)

10-27-2003 14:04:32




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 Re: OT: Computer network installer JOB? in reply to Rod MI, 10-27-2003 08:14:41  
Well I know very little about computers but please consider this.
Any one who thinks they are going to go to school then have people knocking down his door for him to work for them needs to grow up.(other than maybe a doctor) The computer industry went through a time of big expansion and the supply of techs did not keep up. Hence the schools selling many job openings: but the supply has caught up with the demand.
My son went into the MARINES as a computer network installer and maintainer. He expander into repairs and program writing. He is always going to one school or another. After 4 years he now feels he is in demand.
I guess what I am trying to say is it will take time. Network installers are a dime a dozen. I think you will find your self expanding into other parts of the field just to find a job such as my son has done. Best advise I think anyone can give you is! Check the job market for openings before you start set a goal and stick with it.

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rhouston-forgot

10-27-2003 13:07:26




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 Re: OT: Computer network installer JOB? in reply to Rod MI, 10-27-2003 08:14:41  
job titles to look for (if we haven�t scared you away)

PC/network analyst
LAN technician

your average day will be

My printer doesn�t work
My email doesn�t work
Someone installed (webshots, Skins for internet explorer, weatherbug, weatherchannel temp in the system tray or some other stupid program and now they don't understand why their machine is slow/crashes/doesn�t work)
Virus removal because they opened that email from someone they don't know.
My keyboard/mouse won't work (because they kicked the plug out with their feet.)

and of course my favorite complaint "It hasn't worked right since the last time you were here" which, in fact it has worked fine, they just blame you for any hiccup, blip, or faht it has since you were there last. (see the installed software above)

And then when something really does go wrong with a server you have some manager constantly on your back wanting to know exactly when you will have their server back up. Of Course they want to know exactly what�s wrong with it. (when we know THAT we will have it fixed so "go away and let me work")

of course you can also forget doing things during the day on weekends because that is when all the people who spent their regular work hours browsing the internet come in to do whatever they should have been doing during regular hours. So you are reduced to nightime on weekends. I'll tell you right now babysitting a server until 4 or 5 in the morning ain't fun.

The pay scale is on the decline. Most companies now promote someone who is a knowledgeable user. Not to mention you have a great expense in keeping current with your certifications.

You'll spend 90% of your time waitng for the machine to finish something and 10% clicking on the word "Next"

I could go on and on and on...

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ray

10-29-2003 08:17:06




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 Re: Re: OT: Computer network installer JOB? in reply to rhouston-forgot , 10-27-2003 13:07:26  
Ouch...way to close to home but so true.



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rhouston

10-27-2003 12:10:41




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 Re: OT: Computer network installer JOB? in reply to Rod MI, 10-27-2003 08:14:41  
I've been doing the computer repair/network/server thing all my adult life (last 20 years). My advice to you is don't bother, It's a thankless job that requires you to work all times day and night (can't install things while the users are on you know) all on a salary (read NO OVERTIME). I've got a list of credentials/certifications a mile long. In a rural area my Current pay is 37K at a small hospital in Pa. Best pay was 50K at a consulting firm (computer slump of 2001 ended that.) If you don't have real world experience then you can't even get an interview (especially in CA.)

In my opinion it's coming down to this. a few people at the large consulting firms or in India will make lots of money configuring servers and networks. They will be shipped to the customer were some minimum wage lackey will connect it to the internet after which the man at the firm will finish the install. I have seen this scenario much more often lately. most of the paid installs we've had are done this way. (I do most of the server builds and installs for the hospital)

Thinking of programming ??? think again there are people in India that will do an ENTIRE program for what you will charge for an hour.

Just to let you know I was very good at what I did. My former employer charged $125/hr for my time. 3 years later I still get calls from customers.

I now charge $75/hr for moonlight work. There is some out there but it takes allot of customers to keep you feed from week to week.

My advice is find a job that cannot be sent overseas. things like construction, landscaping, lawn mowing (sounds crazy but the old fahts pay well) car repair, body repair anything that has to be done HERE.

Now if you still want the network job go for it but you had better know your stuff.

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ShepFL - long response

10-27-2003 13:34:20




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 Re: Re: OT: Computer network installer JOB? in reply to rhouston, 10-27-2003 12:10:41  
Not meaning to rain on your parade you may want to consider a vocation/career that cannot be outsourced. If you do proceed be prepard for lots of long hours, lots of inconvenience (can you come back while I am lunch) and hardly any time to take some time off. It is a THANKLESS job with constant demands, constant badgering, few if any accolades which drives some new talent away. Wish the future was brighter but at this time it is hard to see what lies at the end of the tunnel.
This will be second time my job has been phased out. I am getting to the age that I am wondering if anyone will even consider hiring me.

After 11 yrs. with this outfit I am out on my a$$ come Jan. 04. My job is now moving to INDIA. Going rate there is $12/hr. Oh and guess what else? INDIA is outsourcing to CHINA! How does one compete with 2 billion people making $3/day?

Right now I am making a pitch to Sr. Mgmt. to see if I can succeed in this outsourced environment. I plan to use new techniques to regain effective control of our projects by creating a high level of visibility (particularly early in the project) and to use the persuasive power of requiring regular reporting to regain control.

This will be a voodoo blend of psychology and technology to obtain the maximum benefit and will focus on helping the vendors become effective and profitable. As I see it now in today's outsourced environment, existing IT managers can only achieve success by making our outsourcing partner successful for whatever that is worth. Loyalty is considered the same as a dinosaur! Professional Synopsis - NOW ALL FOR NOT
� Provide technology leadership and accountability for all technology solutions for client programs. Manage the entire life cycle of technologies for 3PL clients including business capture solution definition implementation maintenance and continuous improvement of contact center solutions.
� Provide technical leadership for the identification design development and/or configuration integration deployment and on-going support of technology solutions that consists of contact center single channel and/or multichannel applications voice & data networks computer telephony integration interactive voice response speech recognition etc.
� Manage an Information Technology organization that consists of Consultants, Technical Project Managers and Developers (Business Analysts Software Developers and QA Test staff). Provide system development services and client production support utilizing IT resources located in multiple North American and European locations.
� Work within the Technical Services and Applications group to define and implement process improvements and overall efficiency and business growth initiatives designed to create a set of unified technology processes across the enterprise.
� Provide budget planning and financial management for the technology organization including creation and management of annual expense budgets resource and capacity planning capital needs development and tracking of business cases management and tracking of internal charge backs and client billables. Responsible for estimating system costs and meeting all cost estimates.
� Represent Operations in working with other technology organizations to develop and operationalize technology strategies policies methodologies standards and initiatives.
� Create an environment that ensures IT organization members have the resources and tools as well as the feedback development and training to be successful.

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Ludwig

10-27-2003 09:52:59




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 Re: OT: Computer network installer JOB? in reply to Rod MI, 10-27-2003 08:14:41  
Roger is unfortunately a testament to the burst of the bubble. I'll try to give you a short synopsis of why.
In about '97 the technology "have nots" started to become technology "haves" as computer prices went down and OSs got easier. With the increase in computer users the brains of the average computer user went down. Which is to say that while more people got computers the average computer user got dumber.
Enter the internet boom. With the boom more computer techs were needed to support the new users. In the rush to market lots of "Paper MCSE's" got certified. These were folks who went to MCSE boot camp, learned how to pass the test and got certified with literally NO computer experience. Guys who sat in front of an NT station and said "Wait, hit ctrl-alt-delete to log on? Thats a trick right?"
So with the crash theres a VAST pool of these losers vieing for the same jobs there were before the bust. Plus there are the guys who actually know stuff. So the trouble is that if you don't actually have any experience in the field finding a job can be very difficult.


NOW, what to do? Well you've started on the right path. Make danged sure this is something you want. Start with something like A+, get "A+ for Dummies" or one of the other books. The A+ exam is like $200 and is pretty easy, I got it 2 1/2 years ago and it helped me land 2 jobs. I'm now looking at Linux+ and Network+. MCSE is a decent certification but theres a real glut.
Be prepared to work in a call center, be prepared to be treated like cattle. I work for a good company, but most of them aren't... There is NOTHING romantic about this job....

If I had it to do over again... I'd probably do the same danged thing, I'm not very smart.

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walt

10-27-2003 09:18:46




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 Re: OT: Computer network installer JOB? in reply to Rod MI, 10-27-2003 08:14:41  
Sign up here and post your question in the appropriate forum. Lots of smart guys/gals..



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Roger (long winded)

10-27-2003 09:17:36




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 Re: OT: Computer network installer JOB? in reply to Rod MI, 10-27-2003 08:14:41  
Rod, I don't know where you are, but I went this route a few years ago and I am sorry for it. It was a bad year. I just learned my dad was dying from cancer, I lost my job and lost my apartment. I decided it was time to get some education and take a serious run at a career. I went to a local IT school and was dazzled by all the BS I was fed. The promise of jobs,jobs,jobs was pretty compelling at the time, considering my situation. They told me that the students at the school were often recruited before they finished writing their exams, and that there was basically an insatiable demand for network support people. It sounded great. Considering that, at the time, my job skills consisted of some unticketed heavy-duty mechanic/millwrighting experience related to the compressor field, it seemed like a good bet to get some more education in a field that seemed to be really taking off. So, despite the $12k price for ONE year of school, I signed on the dotted line. I took a job at a welding shop where my brother worked, sanding weld spatter and grinding ragged beads smooth on new trash compactors and roll-off containers. I worked 10 hour night shifts, like a damn slave and managed to save $8000 towards school. I went to school,passed all my exams in the 80%-100% range and graduated near the top of the class. Funny, before I went to school, they were saying I would probably be recruited before I graduated. About halfway through, they said it took about six months to find a job. Near the end, they were saying maybe we should volunteer to get some work experience. So, from being recruited before we graduate, to having to work for free to get some experience, it was quite a change in one short year. Very few people I went to school with ended up with jobs, and many who did were making less than I did when I was "unskilled". I know for a fact that the school I went to take their students on a tour of the local HP call center to introduce them to the people they will be probably be working for when they graduate ($10 a hour, taking abuse from HP owners who barely know how to switch their computers on). Yeah, you're kinda overeducated for that sort of work, but that's about the only thing anybody found to do. Some people got work doing DSL or cable modem installs, but that didn't last long, and it used maybe 2% of what you learned in school. Oddly enough, I ended up working on compressors again in another town. Not having learned my lesson the first time, I decided to spend ANOTHER $1000 on writing 6 Microsoft exams to get certified on Windows NT, IIS etc. I wrote those exams, passed all of them on the first go, and was MCSE certified in July 2000. I moved back to my old city, snowed it with resumes, with my shiny new MS credentials, and got offered one job fixing printers. I did a short stint in that call center, but went back into mechanics shortly after. When THAT job went belly up, I did manage to find a job with a compter sales/ISP/computer repair business, as a PC tech, network support person and DSL installer. I wasn't making any more money than I did as a mechanic, but it was nice, clean light work. Unfortunately, the local telephone company started to screw my employer with the rates they charged for providing DSL service, so they stopped doing that for awhile. The computer repair and sales business was then sold, so I became redundant (sense a pattern developing here?). Two days after I was laid off, I saw a job for a compressor mechanic. I didn't really want to go back into it, but the money was good, and it was a good company, so I went for it. Considering that there aren't many jobs for a compressor mechanic, I took it as some sort of sign that maybe it was meant to be somehow...Of course, a year later, the economy slowed to a halt, and I was let go, YET AGAIN. I moved directly into another compressor repair job, but oddly enough, just after I was hired, they laid off all the welders. The they laid off all the night shift of machinists. The the President was fired. The the shop foreman was fired. I began to get that sinking feeling again. Instead of waiting for it this time, I pulled the plug, moved 3000km east and I am currently back in school, doing a three year engineering diploma in Photonics. I worked all last year in a compressor shop (hopefully for the last time, knock on wood). I did apply for computer work last year. I got one response, had a decent interview, then heard nothing more. So take it for what it's worth. The whole networking thing, to me, was a pig in a poke. I got nothing but a big bill. If it is something you truly want to do, do your homework beforehand. Find out if there really is a demand for those skills in your area. Find out if the school you plan to attend is well regarded. Make sure you get excellent hands on experience with the gear and the software. Don't go to any school that hires their own graduates to teach. Don't go to any school that has a campus in a shopping mall(it's a dead giveaway that they are only in it to make a quick buck). And most of all don't pay more for the education than you can comfortably write-off as a waste of money.
Just my experience, for what it's worth.
Personally, I would do the A+ certification to test the waters and see how much work is avalable in your area first. Not a whole lot of money in it, but it won't break the bank to get certified.

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Bill in TN

10-28-2003 07:38:36




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 Re: Re: OT: Computer network installer JOB? in reply to Roger (long winded), 10-27-2003 09:17:36  
I've been in the IT industry almost 30 years. Long before it was IT, it was know as DP. Most of what these guys are saying is correct. If you want to go into networking, work toward your CCNA or Cisco certifed network associate. You can get the book and CD's at most any book store.

Network guys work alot....I am in storage, and get called in often. I usually see the network guys when I arrive on site. Customers don't work on networks during prime shift unless they are down or seriously degraded....with the redundancy in todays high end products,just about all of the break fix is off shift or weekends.

Yes, it's high stress. Most IT managers get a bonus for availability. One screw up, and it's the come to Jesus meeting. Screw up a couple of times and your gone. Expectations are higher than they ever have been.

I've been hearing out sourcing for 30 years now. Some companies do it but usually regret it. One of the biggest complaints I hear from customers today is: I called for support and got Hiabe in India. I couldn't understand a d*mb word he was saying.

Customers don't want oversea's support, and this will be a major sales issue in the future. When the salesman hears "you have a good product, but your support sucks. XYZ company's support at least speaks english." Then the salesman will go back to corp and eventually it'll come back to the USA. Company's are really short sighted about this. You get what you pay for, but in America it's all about this quarter. Will we met analysist expectations..... Lets hope for better times ahead.

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