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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

On the topic of shops

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Doug Rogers

10-17-2003 08:48:32




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I recently build a 54x51 foot shed for hay, equipment, etc. Inside, I poured a slab for a 20x20 foot shop. I have little to no experience in structural design so I coming to you guys. What do I need for walls and a flat roof. I want to span the entire 20 feet so I don't have any posts on the inside. For the walls, I'm looking for stud size and spacing and for the roof, I'm looking for correct materials and spacing (wooden I-beams or 2x6s or what). I do want to be able to walk on roof and store junks up there. Not too much but I do want it to be able to hold some weight. The shop will be adjacent to two interior shed walls and will have a walk through door on one other side and a 10 foot door on another. Any help or suggestions would be appreciated.

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JOHN (LA)

10-18-2003 15:16:00




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 Re: On the topic of shops in reply to Doug Rogers, 10-17-2003 08:48:32  
Starting at the bottom you will need a load carrying footing in your slab. Your building inspector dept. can give you a detailed drawing as to size and rebar needed for your soil and climate conditions.
Standard practice in walls even two story houses is a single bottom plate, studs at 16" on center a top plate with a second overlapping or locking top plate. All material is 2x4
Ceiling joist or second floor is tricky to do on internet.You need to treat this as a second floor and not a ceiling. Lot of things to consider such as deflection, dead load, live load type of lumber used. Manufactured I beams carry a load rating with span and spacing as different brands are built differantly. With solid lumber you will need 2x12 16" on center for 20 ft span useing southern pine as a minimum. You can increase your carring capacity by going 12" on center and using X bracing between boards. Really need to know your weight in PSF because what you call "some weight" may not be my some weight. As a start No2 2X12 southern pine 16"OC will put you at about 30-35 PSF live and dead load combined if I remember correctly.
Doors; If you have a choice and you should since it is 20ft either way run your second floor joist so they DO NOT sit on the walls with the 10ft door because of door header carrying capacity. A 3 ft walk threw door will not be a problem. ALL load carrying windows and doors should have a double 2X12 with a piece of 1/2" plywood between set on top of 2X4 studs (not nailed into sides) and a full length 2X4 on each side. Non load carrying headers can be made of 2X6 material. The 10 ft door should use 2X12 material even if not load carrying may be larger or steel required if load carrying.

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Slowpoke

10-18-2003 23:03:29




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 Re: Re: On the topic of shops in reply to JOHN (LA), 10-18-2003 15:16:00  
John... can you please tell us the definition of dead load and live load?



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JOHN (LA)

10-19-2003 06:47:13




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 Re: Re: Re: On the topic of shops in reply to Slowpoke, 10-18-2003 23:03:29  
Dead Loads are the weights of the building materials used in the structure itself. This would include such things as the joists, subfloor,and sheetrock celing.
Live Loads are those loads that can come and go. This would include people and furniture or in this case stored items,
but will also include such things as wind, snow, and ice when talking about roof applications which does not apply to this case. You need to know both of these weights in PSF to be able to figure what size lumber to use. Take for instance in our area of the country we can use #2 2X6 for a roof and span 15 feet because we mostly only have dead load (shingles,plywood and 2X6's) where as some one in IOWA may have a problem with this since they have to add the live load of snow. Also if you were to use this size lumber in a floor it would work for dead load of 2X6's and subflooring but you would have very real problems once you added the live load of your TV, sofa, dog, You and your wife watching said TV, kids running threw the room ect.

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Slowpoke

10-20-2003 00:43:20




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: On the topic of shops in reply to JOHN (LA) , 10-19-2003 06:47:13  
Thanks, John.



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Slowpoke

10-18-2003 01:28:42




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 Re: On the topic of shops in reply to Doug Rogers, 10-17-2003 08:48:32  
You should put a footing around the perimeter of the slab to carry the weight of the walls and roof, if it wasn't put under the slab when poured. The depth and width depend on the soil and climate. Otherwise you may find the slab cracking from the weight..Especially if you are going to load the roof. Larger footing pads may be needed under the 10' door columns.



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R. Marg

10-17-2003 10:41:15




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 Re: On the topic of shops in reply to Doug Rogers, 10-17-2003 08:48:32  
If I were you I would go with steel beams if you use wood beams they would have to be big and that makes them very heavy and now days steel is as cheap as wood and lasts longer I built my shop for slavage mobile home frames and old dock parts I got lucky I have about $200 in it as far as cost of the metel and roof Its big enough to pull my old 1963 diamond-T dump truck in



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