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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

PVC Air Lines

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Joel

10-06-2003 13:13:41

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Anybody used 1/2 PVC for air lines in a shop? If not what did you use? Time to do this part of the building all replies appreciated.

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PJW

10-08-2003 17:52:58

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Re: PVC Air Lines in reply to Joel, 10-06-2003 13:13:41

Joel,
Use copper, I did, it works fine and the price is right. Solder the joints and large sections on the floor, lift the ceiling or wall and make your connection. Copper is used in commercial applications and will be faster to install then steel and much cheaper. Do not use PVC.

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MikeM

10-08-2003 08:10:24

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Re: PVC Air Lines in reply to Joel, 10-06-2003 13:13:41

You could go to your local semi truck garage or maybe NAPA or carquest and price truck air brake
line its plastic easy to run and also works for fuel and water. The fittings may end up makeing it cost more than pipe I haven't checked on prices lately. I worked at a truck dealer and they even used it to hook up the water fountain. Just thought I would give you another option.

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KURT (mi)

10-07-2003 16:20:44

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Re: PVC Air Lines in reply to Joel, 10-06-2003 13:13:41

You should never ever use PVC for compressed air lines. When it breaks it shatters like shrapnel. and I am sure could be quite painful, I have never seen it happen and hope I never do. Ask yourself, have you ever seen a commercial shop that had PVC for air pressure lines, I havent. Use black pipe w/ filters at the source of usage.

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Chris-se-ILL

10-07-2003 20:59:10

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Re: Re: PVC Air Lines in reply to KURT (mi), 10-07-2003 16:20:44

You won't see any PVC used for compressed air lines in any commercial establishments. OSHA has a very severe fine in store for any company or employer that uses PVC for air lines. I remember reading about a farmer in Oregan (out there if you employ even one person, you are subject to all OSHA laws). If I remember correctly the guy used PVC to run underground air lines to each of his four chicken houses. There was no PVC lines exposed above ground, he had installed black pipe down to the horizontal PVC lines. This farmer got fined $1000 per line!!!! And, the lines had been in place before the OSHA regs had been adopted by the State, for small employers.

That being said.... About 30 years ago Dad installed air lines from the main shop out to our machine shed and the grain bin shed, using PVC line underground (with black pipe running vertically down to the PVC). We have operated the line on 110 psi (when needing air out to the outbuildings) with no problems at all for all these years! For any above ground applications however, we use black pipe.... but PVC buried 30in. underground is not likely to injure anyone (IMO).

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Joel

10-07-2003 06:59:42

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Re: PVC Air Lines in reply to Joel, 10-06-2003 13:13:41

Well i guess that answers that question i will be taking the PVC back thought the 600 psi pipe would work guess i was wrong...thanks for all the replies.

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John in MA

10-06-2003 22:07:58

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Re: PVC Air Lines in reply to Joel, 10-06-2003 13:13:41

PVC gets brittle and loses strengh with temperature changes, pressure changes, oil in lines, and vibration. Lots of folks have had PVC lines in their shop blow on its own, or shatter when hit with an object.

The pressure rating is for incompressible fluids.

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Joel

10-06-2003 20:59:38

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Re: PVC Air Lines in reply to Joel, 10-06-2003 13:13:41

Thanks for all the replies...guess i will take the pvc back...guess i thought the 600 psi would work guess i was wrong.

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Joe Evans

10-06-2003 19:40:56

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Re: PVC Air Lines in reply to Joel, 10-06-2003 13:13:41

Do not use PVC for compressed air service! Yes, it's easy to install and fairly inexpensive to buy, but it's not worth the risk. To muddy the waters a bit, a vendor (I work for a large mechanical/piping contractor) stopped by a couple of years ago hawking a PVC piping system made by one of the big plastic pipe/fitting mfrs. that was approved for compressed air service. It was obviously special stuff, new on the market, and probably (didn't check) expensive. I admired the product from a distance, told him it looked nice, but unless it gets spec'd by a design engineer on a project we're doing, we aren't going to push it.
We know we can hang our hats on a copper, iron, or stainless system and can sleep at night. Our insurance underwriter thinks the same way.

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Terry Clark

10-18-2003 15:15:04

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Re: Re: PVC Air Lines in reply to Joe Evans, 10-06-2003 19:40:56

Ahhh man!!!I just plumbed my shop and my dad's shop after all these years of just having one air hose and we always had to wait for someone else to get done.I gotta do it all over again!!!I just was wondering if any one had any info. on the cost and where I can get some of that abs you guys were talking about I cannot sweat copper,and black iron is so much trouble,also I thought about asking if I could use copper with compression couplings?

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Dr.EVIL

10-07-2003 07:25:05

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Re: Re: PVC Air Lines in reply to Joe Evans, 10-06-2003 19:40:56

I've gotten some info on that pipe also, it's actually a type of ABS plastic. Not near as brittle as PVC. And Your absolutley correct on the price.... Copper is cheaper unless You factor in a LOT of high price labor for installation. Black pipe is still the cheapest but dirtiest.

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Rod (NH)

10-06-2003 16:24:56

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Re: PVC Air Lines in reply to Joel, 10-06-2003 13:13:41

Hi Joel,

I would NOT recommend using PVC for compressed air at any pressure, no matter the "rating". Use copper (w/95-5 solder) or steel pipe instead. See here and here for some background on the problem with PVC and compressed air.

Rod

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Mac

10-06-2003 15:15:34

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Re: PVC Air Lines in reply to Joel, 10-06-2003 13:13:41

I sure wouldnt chance it. Not worth it for price difference of copper or steel. Some guys get by with PVC, but?????

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David - OR

10-06-2003 14:28:54

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Re: PVC Air Lines in reply to Joel, 10-06-2003 13:13:41

All of the plastic pipe vendors specifically disapprove of compressed air in PVC pipe. There are laws in many states and Canada, and perhaps OSHA rules as well, forbidding this use in the workplace.

The problem with PVC is its very low energy of fracture. (It is brittle). When it fails, it explodes into pointy shards. The constant exposure to compressor oil will tend to make it weaker and more brittle over time.

So if you have that 1.5 inch line pressurized to 125 PSI strung around your shop, and something bangs into it, it has the potential to go off like a pipe bomb, with enough force to kill or blind someone nearby.

If you think this is namby-pamby safety nonsense, try the following test. Put on some safety glasses, grab a chunk of PVC, and whack it with a hammer. Notice how it smashes into small fragments, tending to fly in all directions.

Try the same thing with a piece of almost-as-cheap copper pipe or copper tubing, and you will see why other materials are much preferred over PVC for shop airlines.

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the tractor vet

10-06-2003 13:52:24

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Re: PVC Air Lines in reply to Joel, 10-06-2003 13:13:41

My buddy did his building with 1 1/2 Schedual 40 and it has work ok but we did use some steel pipe off the compressor as a heatsink about 15 feet of it then into the pvc , we installed water traps at every hookup point and installed 1/4 and 1/2 inch couplers at each drop. We went all around a 40 x 75 and this stopped having air hoses layen all over the floor. But we also kept the max. air pressure down to 120 lbs.

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the tractor vet

10-06-2003 15:38:59

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Re: Re: PVC Air Lines in reply to the tractor vet, 10-06-2003 13:52:24

Not sayen that you are wrong but the 1 1/2 that we installed had a pressure rating of over 300 lbs psi and it is up out of the way as so that nothing would bang into it and is on the backsides of the steel beams . It also has less condensation then steel would and no rust buildup And when your painting as many tractor as my buddy was clean air is good,

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Robert in W. Mi

10-06-2003 16:45:39

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Re: Re: Re: PVC Air Lines in reply to the tractor vet, 10-06-2003 15:38:59

That 300psi rateing changes along with the temp. of the pipe, and 2 or 3 times a year i hear of some of it explodeing!! I'd NEVER use it in my shop, as if someone got hurt by it, the liability is too great. (insurance problems, and lawsuits) Robert

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stihltech

10-06-2003 18:01:24

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Re: Re: Re: Re: PVC Air Lines in reply to Robert in W. Mi, 10-06-2003 16:45:39

A friend of mine had it in his shop. One day it cold cold and exploded. Talk about shrapnel!
Don't do it. Hospitals a way too expensive.

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