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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

Question for T-Bone,or anybody with HVAC experien

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Red Dave

10-01-2003 06:24:24




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I have a proposal from a company to install a Coleman gas furnace(propane) and air conditioner in my house. I expect to get a few more proposals before I make up my mind.
I know you have experience in this area and I would like to ask a few questions.
My questions are these: Is Coleman a good brand?
Are there any brands you would reccomend?
Are there any brands you would stay away from.
What is an acceptable SEER number for a new unit?
Thank You.

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bill b va

10-02-2003 08:23:38




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 Re: Question for T-Bone,or anybody with HVAC expe in reply to Red Dave, 10-01-2003 06:24:24  

my vote is for york .built my 1500 sq ft house 10 years ago . had taken a home study course in hvac 10 years ealier and was some what knowledgeabe. house is studded out with 2x6 ,wrapped with house wrap and cedar siding .well insulated with double pane windows . YORK HEAT PUMP with back up elec. heating . elec bill averages $130 per month .built a chimney while house was being built as i was leary of these new fangled contraptions .burned some wood the first winter . none since . have my own wood .have oil fired furnace sitting in basement with out duct work in case of power failure . no need to connect as it will heat the house fine by heating the basement . 10 years on this unit and the contacts on the contactor became pitted and quit this spring . cleaned contacts and still going . have the new contactor sitting here ready to go .

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Red Dave

10-02-2003 05:58:43




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 Re: Question for T-Bone,or anybody with HVAC expe in reply to Red Dave, 10-01-2003 06:24:24  
Thanks to all that responded, I appreciate it.



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Dennis Minn

10-01-2003 22:19:48




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 Re: Question for T-Bone,or anybody with HVAC expe in reply to Red Dave, 10-01-2003 06:24:24  
A lot of good advice given here. I want to point out that there are FEW differences betwix a SEER12 and 13. Sometimes all it takes is a timer circuit, a damper actuator, or a differently designed A coil. As far as gas fired furnaces go, there's big differences in choosing the almighty SEER. That being said, I am not one to knock experienced advice, however, some of the higher SEER furnaces have to have stainless steel flues to remedy the low flue temps and condensation issues of burning gas. Those that don't use the stainless are prone to heat checking, rust out, and CO concerns, but sell for less. The 80-85% furnaces are in need of a chimney due to stack temperatures, however, even in Minnesota, it may take years for you to recoup your initial investment. It's your choice, however, there's many considerations besides SEER. And on one last note, most of the burner control boards are made by three manufacturers, so the "brains of the operation" is very common to ALL furnaces sold today. OK, the last time I stated an opinion here I got ripped for it in a grand fashion, we'll see what this brings,D, G'luck.

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Ben in KY

10-01-2003 12:31:56




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 Re: Question for T-Bone,or anybody with HVAC expe in reply to Red Dave, 10-01-2003 06:24:24  
Good advice from T_Bone and Burlgoat. When you buy the AC portion of your unit pay attention to the price increases as the SEER increases. I did the math one time when I lived in FL. I found that the money I saved on electric for a 14 SEER unit vs a 12 SEER unit would take me about 10 years to get back due to the higher selling price of the 14 SEER unit.
The AC dealer could not dispute this figure. So I bought the 12 SEER unit and was happy with it.

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Burlgoat

10-01-2003 11:30:35




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 Re: Question for T-Bone,or anybody with HVAC expe in reply to Red Dave, 10-01-2003 06:24:24  
Red Dave I agree with T-Bone about the Coleman units.I also retiredfrom the HVAC field after 41 years.Whichever unit you go with it should have a SEER of 13 or above standard now is 12 or above.Trane,Lennox,Carrier are all good units Rudd,Rheem Day&nite are also good they are made by Carrier.Goodman/Janitrol is also agood unit,a lot of a/c men cuss them but if installed right they are good.Here in Texas to install or work on propane units we are licensed by the Railroad Commission you may want to check where you are located as to regulations. Good Luck & let us know how it goes.

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T_Bone

10-01-2003 09:09:21




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 Re: Question for T-Bone,or anybody with HVAC expe in reply to Red Dave, 10-01-2003 06:24:24  
Hi Red Dave,

I'm not going be much help as I haven't kept up with new units since I retired. Gas piggybacks carried a lower SEER around 12 maximum than Heat Pumps approx 15.

Most of the better gas units have 90% to 95% effiency and they still make 80% units so watch that number. There you need to watch the sales hype that our is 2% more efficent but cost $500 more than a 95% unit. The 95% unit is a better buy looking at nothing more than $$$.

The only problem that I ever had with Coleman was parts were hard to come by and expensive when available. Coleman was always a industry "follower" not a leader, meaning some brand could be found that was more efficent and had the latest technology advancement.

Trane is/was probably the industry leader in the home units for years. Carrier, Rudd, Rhrem, Lynix were all good units. Copeland was one of the better compressor brands. Carrier was always excellant quality and a indusrty leader in technology but also came with a leader price tag.

I assume you've read my comments on the Tractor Talk forum on scroll compressors.

Thats about all I can help with as like welding machines, I just haven't used any of the newer equipment to give any advice of hands on experience.

T_Bone

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Hal/WA

10-01-2003 15:07:36




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 Re: Re: Question for T-Bone,or anybody with HVAC in reply to T_Bone, 10-01-2003 09:09:21  
T_Bone, I missed your opinions on scroll compressors. Are they OK? My Rheem central airconditioner has one and it has worked fine for the five summers it has been in service.

If I had it to do over, I think I would have gone with the 95% efficiency condensing gas furnace rather than the 80+% model I chose. At the time I bought the furnace natural gas was really cheap and I didn't think I could ever come out on the $1k, or so increase in price for the higher efficiency model. But since then my gas rates are almost twice what it was then and I wonder if I made a mistake. The other thing to consider is the venting. The higher efficiency model could vent through the wall, while the one I chose required a chimney through the roof. It would have been easier to do through the wall and would have allowed a bit more efficient packaging in my new house.

The furnace people that I bought my system from said that they had more trouble calls with the higher efficiency models and almost none with the older designs. So maybe I am making up for the higher gas costs of the system I bought by not having to have it worked on. So far it has worked flawlessly.

I live in Eastern Washington, where it gets pretty hot in the summer and can get to 30 below in the winter. We have to have good heating and cooling. I always burned wood and used a swamp cooler in my old house, but about the time I decided to build a new house, a natural gas main was installed in the street in front of my property. I have sure enjoyed how easy it is to just let the gas furnace and air conditioning operate automaticly. But when I designed my house, I left room for a chimney through one of the closets so I could easily add a Metalbestos type chimney and a wood stove in the basement. I hope to get that set up in the next couple of years. I have lots of wood available just for the cutting and splitting and I would like to be able to burn solid fuel for backup or supplementary heat. There always has been plenty of natural gas, but you never know.....

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T_Bone

10-02-2003 10:08:35




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 Re: Re: Re: Question for T-Bone,or anybody with H in reply to Hal/WA, 10-01-2003 15:07:36  
Hi Hal,

Heres the link to the other post I made.

The scroll compressor is the best on the market as it hard to screw one up from having a poorly trained technician apply his skills. :)

T_Bone



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bill b va

10-02-2003 13:47:05




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Question for T-Bone,or anybody wi in reply to T_Bone, 10-02-2003 10:08:35  

you should have pointed out one needs to use the prevailing costs in their area for the heat source in your example. many if not most do not have natural gas availiable .LP can be very expensive depending on where you live .if one has shorter period needing backup heat the extra saving by the heat pump will off set most of the backup heat .insulation is the anwser . you can heat a house with a candle if it is insulated well enough .of course if you fa-rt in the fall you will still smell it next spring .

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