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How much heat is needed?

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Chuck (CA)

06-20-2000 11:30:07




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I have some very stubborn rusted nuts approx. 2 1/2" in diameter. A pipe wrench won't budge them. I see a lot of posts regarding heating them which will loosen them. Would a propane torch develop enough heat for this job, or do I need a oxy/acetyline torch? Any other suggestions for loosening them would also be much appreciated.
Thanks in Advance,
Chuck




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Chuck (CA) once more

06-21-2000 12:01:55




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 Re: How much heat is needed? in reply to Chuck (CA), 06-20-2000 11:30:07  
Again, thanks for the fantastic responses. After reading Steve's message, I think I'll try the PB Blaster first.. 2.25 sounds a lot better than 500+. I would have trouble justifying purchasing a complete outfit; I would never get the use out of it. However, I really appreciate the great input.

Chuck



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Steve U.S. Alloys

06-21-2000 09:38:57




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 Re: How much heat is needed? in reply to Chuck (CA), 06-20-2000 11:30:07  
Hi Chuck,
You will need to get the nut red. If you get the nut too hot(orange)you may cause it to gaul and twist the bolt off.

I'll tell you about an alternative which works also. There is a penetrant called PB Blaster. That is absolutely the best penetrant we have seen by far. I never had any more luck with penetrant than I do with super glue until someone gave me a can of that Blaster. It worked so well that we have it in our line. You can get it anywhere I think. If you ever wind up getting it from me, I'll see that you get your money back if it's not the best you've seen too. I think we sell it for about $2.25 a can. Call 1-800-325-1568 and ask Sharron or Cathy about it if interested. You can also contact someone at our site>Link
steve>Link

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Scott Green

07-22-2000 07:06:45




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 Re: Re: How much heat is needed? in reply to Steve U.S. Alloys, 06-21-2000 09:38:57  
Steve , another really good penetrant oil is "liquid wrench". That is what I always use. It makes "WD-40" look like water.Just put a little "Liquid Wrench" on the rusted nut , bolt , etc. Wait a few minutes , and off it comes. Like you say the "PB-Blaster" works. I've never used "PB-Blaster". My question to you is: Have you ever used "Liquid Wrench"? If so , how would you compare it to "PB-Blaster"? Looking forward to your responce , Scott

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Russ

06-22-2000 04:04:13




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 Re: Re: How much heat is needed? in reply to Steve U.S. Alloys, 06-21-2000 09:38:57  
Steve, have you tried Kroil. I`m looking for someone who has tried Kroil versus Blaster on similar applications since I`ve heard such great things about both. Just wondering if Kroil was one of the penetrants that you used earlier, with no success? BTW, thanks for the good info you`re known for posting. Russ



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Steve U.S. Alloys

06-22-2000 14:17:30




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 Re: Re: Re: How much heat is needed? in reply to Russ, 06-22-2000 04:04:13  
Hi Russ,
Thank you for the nice compliment.

I have tried Kroil. I have a can of it in the shop right now. I like the Kroil for it's ability to creep into cable sheaths and so forth. I don't find it to be as good in rust frozen applications as the Blaster.

One day I decided to rebuild the old hand pump out at the country place. The pump cylinder probably hadn't seen the light of day for at least two decades. When I saw all the rust blisters, I immediately fired up the old gas ax and put the heat to it. I had my big pipe wrench with a 3' cheater on it and could 'not' bust that thing loose. I sprayed some blaster on it and let it soak in for about twenty minutes. That nut popped loose on the first tug. I went through the same thing with a frozen adjuster screw on a garden plow someone gave me.

That's what began my lobby to add this to our line. The guys that call on the farm accounts sell tons of it. When I can remember that we have it, I sell it to the industrial accounts of mine. I'm not good at remembering the things outside of our welding and metallising line. My job description has changed in a way that doesn't cause me to think along those lines. I was in a wire drawing mill in Rockford Illinois today to discuss wear solutions for their wire guides. The thought of introducing them to something outside the realm of wear prevention never dawned on me. I was having too much fun with the project at hand.
Steve

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Kevin

06-21-2000 05:37:25




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 Re: How much heat is needed? in reply to Chuck (CA), 06-20-2000 11:30:07  
I recently spent 2 weeks trying to loosen a 2" nut on a bush hog. I'd alternate penetrating oil, heat with a propane torch, and a breaker bar with an extension pipe. Finally, I took it to a neighbor with an acetylene torch. He heated it and it came off on the second push. I just wasn't getting it hot enough with the propane.



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jimmyzz

06-20-2000 21:21:07




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 Re: How much heat is needed? in reply to Chuck (CA), 06-20-2000 11:30:07  
the amount of rust will determine the amount of heat needed. propane might work in some cases. what the heck try it. old farmer trick was to wrap a bunch of string around nut, put some kersine on it, then light it. it works too if not too badly frozen.



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MarkB

06-20-2000 19:53:54




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 Re: How much heat is needed? in reply to Chuck (CA), 06-20-2000 11:30:07  
Just go ahead and buy an oxyacetylene rig. It'll be the best $500 you ever spent. ($200 for tanks, $200 for the torch set, and $100 for misc stuff.) A plain propane torch will NEVER get those nuts hot enough. They need to slightly glow red. (Oxy-propane would work also, of course.)

I like to use the "hot wrench" on anything that's seized. My experience is that if you force a cold nut, it will probably break the bolt, round off the nut, or strip the threads. With a little heat, the nut should come right off with no damage.

If worst comes to worst, use your torch to cut the nut off.

Most welding supply shops will make you a pretty good deal if you buy the whole setup from them. Aga Gas, which has shops all over the place, sells some nice equipment at reasonable prices.

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Chuck (CA)

06-20-2000 17:44:22




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 Re: How much heat is needed? in reply to Chuck (CA), 06-20-2000 11:30:07  
Thanks for the input and options. I'll try some of these procedures tomorrow and let you know how it turns out.
Chuck



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buck

06-20-2000 15:23:28




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 Re: How much heat is needed? in reply to Chuck (CA), 06-20-2000 11:30:07  

If you are not out to save the nuts use a chisel and cut across the flat of the nut in line with the bolt.An air chisel works great here but in any case when you have cut about half way through the nut it will usually pop open and you can almost take it off by hand. On your heating always apply the heat furtherist from the threads.



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bbott

06-20-2000 14:38:26




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 Re: How much heat is needed? in reply to Chuck (CA), 06-20-2000 11:30:07  
How big's the pipe wrench ? Things won't go 3' wrench with a 4' cheater for it ?

(Safety warning be really careful with pipe wrenches/cheaters etc. If things break or otherwise 'let go' you can get hurt.
(It's usually best to use the proper tools..)

If she don't go...

Heat them as best you can with a propane torch and douse them with Joy's Rust-Solv, Kroil or some other such 'real' penetrating oil as they cool down... The heat will draw the oil into what's left of the threads...
(oil like WD-40 isn't very useful here)

Let them sit until completely cool... If you have patience, repeat the cycle a couple times. Give things another try.

By now, you've already had a pipe wrench on them, so what the heck, take a singlejack, (small sledgehammer)
Aim carefully and give them a solid whack on a corner of the nut to drive 'em counterclockwise.

Then take a heavy punch or thread another nut on the stud, and give a similar whack on the top of the stud.

This usually gets things going... try again...
If not.. well...

Got a welder ? Weld a lug on them and beat them off...

Not that ? well... Got a torch ?

best of luck.

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Tyler(WA)

06-20-2000 13:35:36




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 Re: How much heat is needed? in reply to Chuck (CA), 06-20-2000 11:30:07  
I've been told that you need enough heat to turn the metal red. The tourch you need will depend on how much metal you're heating. If the bolt is stuck in a cast iron engine block, you're going to need an acetylene tourch. If it is stuck in a nut, holding sheet metal together, you can do fine with a propane tourch.

Be sure to let the metal cool before you put too much leverage on that bolt. Heating causes the bolt to expand and then contract, crushing the oxidation that is binding it. Use some good penetrating oil on the cooled bolt and it should come out for you.

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