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Shop lighting, looking for ideas

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Andy

09-25-2003 18:18:37




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I have a 50'X60' shop with 14' cealing that I am finnishing this fall/winter. I like a well lit shop. Would two solid rows,(spliting the shop in thirds) of flourescents running the long way be enough? How cold will regular flourescents start in; I'm in Minnesota and it gets damn cold. Is it cheaper to use all cold weather bulbs or have multiple fixtures. Thanks, Andy




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ShepFL

09-28-2003 09:20:45




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 Re: Shop lighting, looking for ideas in reply to Andy, 09-25-2003 18:18:37  
For my shop 30W x 60L x 14H here is what I am doing. I have brought 200amp service to the shop in 42 circuit panel. Bigger panel was selected for expansion if ever needed (bought it from electrical contractor during house construction).

I have lighting outlets every 10 ft. on center set out from the wall about 6 ft. I have also have one overhead outlet for every 100 sq ft. (ceiling fan or drop cord)

I am using 4 bulb flourecent fixtures I scrounged from the dump. For each row of lights I am installing 3-way switch switches at each entrance to prevent back tracking and improve efficiency.

For bench work I am installaing 2 outlets with a wall control switch. Right now the bench lighting will be incandescent with hopes to replace this with 150W reflector bulbs later. These lights will be about 4 ft. above the bench.

Outside lighting is mercury vapor with dusk-dawn controls (Lowes Store) on front and back entrances. Sides will be covered with motion sensor flood lights (Lowes store) to come on when parking equipment and to be a deterrent.

General use outlets are 20amp duplex spaced every 4 ft. of wall space (overkill for sure). In case I reconfigure things (move the fridge) I don't want to run out of outlets. I have one GFCI outlet for each wall. I have also dedicated one outlet for each tool less than 1/2 hp.

Special purpose outlets are planned (but not yet installed) for tools 1/2 hp or bigger. Both the general use and special purpose outlets will be on branch circuits to serve no more than three 1/3 hp motors, two 1/2 hp mor or 1hp or bigger.

I also have plans for four 50 amp 2 wire with ground outlets for my ancient DC welder (Lincoln DC 250-MK Aircraft) and my air compressor. One of the welder outlets is going to be placed just inside the main roll up door so I can repair equipment outside without having to remove implements etc.

Heating is really not a concern in my area (N. FL) as it does not get bone-chilling cold here but the overhead outlets will provide ceiling fan cooling in the warmer months. One thing I did not see mentioned was painting for reflectance. When done my shop walls will be painted with a light matte off-white color and ceiling will be painted ceiling white. This is to improve lighting effeciency. This is something that can be done by all of us and cost is just paint. No code constraints that I am aware of :)

When I am done it should be rather nice place to work. This project has been a work in progress for nearly 2 yrs. I am now about 2/3 complete. The above is my PLAN so when finished I do not have to come back and rewire, add etc. Once it is done it is DONE (or so I hope).

FWIW

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Bruce L

09-28-2003 08:31:51




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 Re: Shop lighting, looking for ideas in reply to Andy, 09-25-2003 18:18:37  
third party image

My shop is 42 by 42 and 13.6 high. I used four GE versabay metal halides (250W). I bought them on Ebay from a guy who specializes in reselling used metal halide light fixtures. I would suggest doing a search on ebay for metal halide. For a 14 foot ceiling you should probably have a low bay fixture. Make sure they have multi tap transformers so they will be compatible with ordinary 110/220 voltages. Keep in mind that they do hang down two feet. To wire for them I put in regular outlet boxes. The lights have ordinary cords with plugs just like anything else. They hang from hooks in the ceiling. I really like mine because of their efficiency and the "white" light they produce. Starting them cold is not a problem but they do take about 5 minutes to warm up for full light output. I can control each of them individually. Along the wall and in the corners I need a little more light which I can handle various flourescents I have scrounged. The light over my workbench is wired in with the compressor so I don't forget and leave the compressor on unattended.

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JeffE

09-26-2003 05:20:00




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 Re: Shop lighting, looking for ideas in reply to Andy, 09-25-2003 18:18:37  
I live in Minnesota and have an unheated pole barn. I use the hanging halogen lamps - look like flourescent but have a natural looking light and you don't have to worry about them starting in cold weather. Another advantage is they throw off a little heat, seem to act like little IR heaters in the winter, don't really notice the heat during the summer. I've had them hanging for over 5 years and love them. If you shop around you'll pay about the same as a halfway decent flourescent set.

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Indydirtfarmer

09-26-2003 03:54:25




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 Re: Shop lighting, looking for ideas in reply to Andy, 09-25-2003 18:18:37  
Two words. PACK RAT. I drag home anything that looks like it's useable. My place of employment, has literally thousands of lights. We end up replacing fixtures quite frequently. I have about a dozen mercury vapor "parking lot lights" in my shop. They are overkill. I am just about to start painting a tractor, so the ample lighting will be nice. The only advise that I have is to scatter the lights around, so that you don't end up with a all the light focused in one direction. Put some on the walls, and more on the ceiling. That way, some light will be aimed at whatever you're working on, no matter were you are. You need dark sun glasses to be in my shop. The wife refers to it as my "tanning bed"

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KURT (mi)

09-26-2003 03:19:35




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 Re: Shop lighting, looking for ideas in reply to Andy, 09-25-2003 18:18:37  
My two cents. When I built my garage 3 years ago I wired in 8 outlets in the ceiling and they are energized when the light switch on the wall is flipped. Those outlets have a plug in socket that has a lightbulb socket on the other end, super cheap about $1 each + the bulb. I use 100watt bulbs This was very cheap compared to useing flouresent tubes + fixtures. And we know that incandesent bulbs turn on in almost any tempurature. I dont like flouresenct bulbs and fixtures because of the higher cost and the pain in the a** of changing them vs. Regular bulbs. I also have a 300watt halogen hanging on a chain so that if I need extra light is handy and movable.

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John K

09-25-2003 21:01:54




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 Re: Shop lighting, looking for ideas in reply to Andy, 09-25-2003 18:18:37  
Hi , I'm from Alberta and regular flouresent fixtures don't work well below 40 degrees, take up to 20 minutes to get any brightness. At 0 degrees its hopeless. I would recomend HO fixtures. An other point when buying flouresent fixtures is to get what is called industrial strips, they have a reflector that reflects the light down (does not light up the ceiling) to to where you need it. I am an electrical contractor and won't put any flouresents in a shop over 12 feet high with out the reflectors. Metal halide fixtures (high bays) are great if you have the hight and cold doesn't afect them. If you use regular flouresent bulbs in cold weather, they will burn out quicker as there is a higher current during the starting process. In a warm building, tubes that are dim and black at the ends are indicators of the tube failer. The ballast is trying to start the tube at this point and is heating up due the the higher current, the tar in the ballast becomes liquid and leakes out causing the ballast to become noisy and fail. Also flouresent ballast have a sound rating, sound rating A is the quietest, 8 foot ballasts have a best rating of B.

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Mark

09-26-2003 18:19:21




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 Re: Re: Shop lighting, looking for ideas in reply to John K, 09-25-2003 21:01:54  
Just to follow up on what John said about the metal halides, the ones to get for lower shop ceilings are "low-bays" as they have a diffuser on the bottom. Halides have the most lumens per watt of any lights, and the bulbs last for 10-20 years burning all day. There are no cold start issues. I've started mine down to -10F or so with no problems. When mine are on, it's essentially daylight in the shop.

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Andy

09-27-2003 07:26:16




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 Re: Re: Re: Shop lighting, looking for ideas in reply to Mark, 09-26-2003 18:19:21  
When you say halides is that a specific light or is it a family,(including mercury vapor)? Are these more energy efficiant than flourescent? Thanks



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Andy

09-27-2003 07:25:01




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 Re: Re: Re: Shop lighting, looking for ideas in reply to Mark, 09-26-2003 18:19:21  
When you say halides is that a specific light or is it a family,(including mercury vapor)? Thanks



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Mark

09-27-2003 13:26:30




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Shop lighting, looking for ideas in reply to Andy, 09-27-2003 07:25:01  
Halides can be considered a family, HID is the more common term. They are Metal Halide, Mercury Vapor, High Pressure Sodium and Low Pressure Sodium. The Mercury vapor is the most inefficient, followed by the Metal Halides, then the HPS, then LPS, which is most efficient. Only the Metal Halide is the most color accurate. HPS, and LPS, are sort of orange/yellow. If you look at a color temp chart, the Metal Halides fall about 4500K, sunlight is about 6000K, and other lighting slides down below 3000K and lower. There are lights you can get special that are closer in color temp to sunlight, but the MH are the closest. The fact that they are very efficient was the major selling point for me, and the reason many people don't like them is the very slow warm up time. Most folks are so impatient, they want the lights to go on instantly when they go in the shop. Full light output is about 5-7 minutes, they take about 5-20 seconds to snap on, and are dim at first, gradually brightening. If you just need something quick in the shop, put in a couple of flourescents to get around. I love mine, and those folks who have seen mine, and gotten their own have been very happy with them, but I don't think they are for everyone. If you don't care about shadows or color of the light, just throw up some light bulbs, if you want instant white light, use florescents. My dad always had florescents, and his shop was cold. I hated the 60hz flicker, and the cold weather behavior. The MH's have gotten rid of all those issues.

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Andy

09-27-2003 20:15:25




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Shop lighting, looking for ide in reply to Mark, 09-27-2003 13:26:30  
Thanks for all of the great info. Do you think six fixtures in two rows of three would be enough for a 50X60 shop? How many 400 amp fixtures can go on a 12ga 20 amp circut? thanks again. Andy



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Mark

09-30-2003 19:26:54




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Shop lighting, looking for in reply to Andy, 09-27-2003 20:15:25  
I have 6 400Watt fixtures in my 40x64 shop. It's plenty. Six should work great for you. Each fixture pulls about 2 amps @ 220V. You should be all set using 12 gauge wire, and a single circuit.



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John

09-25-2003 20:16:03




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 Re: Shop lighting, looking for ideas in reply to Andy, 09-25-2003 18:18:37  
I have a 30x50 pole barn with the bottoms of the trusses 18 ft. from the floor. i have it all lit with incandescent light 6 200 watt bulbs. entire interior except wood is white. the bulbs provide plenty of light. i used clear bulbs, as they are much brighter. first i used a normal light switch, but that burnt out so i had to get a heavy duty one.

if you go with flourescent, don't worry about them not starting. todays flourescents can start in almost any temp. i had some of those compact flourescent bulbs that were rated to 40 degrees. put them outside and they still started in subzero temps. be forwarned thought that flourescents will take a while to warm up in the cold, and they will be dim for about 5 minutes

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Mark

09-25-2003 19:40:52




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 Re: Shop lighting, looking for ideas in reply to Andy, 09-25-2003 18:18:37  
I put six 400W metal halide low-bay lights in my 40x64 shop. They make an incredible amount of light. Some people don't like them because they aren't instant, but you can work within a couple minutes and they are full brightness within 5. I got them on ebay for $65 each, and it was far cheaper to do that then dozens of flourescents. And a side benefit is the color of the light is much closer to sunlight than anything else you can buy.

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David - OR

09-25-2003 19:38:53




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 Re: Shop lighting, looking for ideas in reply to Andy, 09-25-2003 18:18:37  
Home Depot and Lowes both sell 8 foot two-bulb heavy duty "high output" flourescent fixtures. Each takes two 110 watt tubes. The HO bulbs and the ballast that goes with them will start (so it says) down to -20 fahrenheit.

Lots of lumens for the dollar, reasonably efficient with the electricity, and no cold weather starting problems.



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Matt S

09-25-2003 19:24:14




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 Re: Shop lighting, looking for ideas in reply to Andy, 09-25-2003 18:18:37  
I have a 34X40 shop with a 12" cieling. First of all I put white painted steel barn panels on the cieling, 20' long x 3' wide screwed to the trusses, had the whole cieling covered in 1-1/2 days. Finished cieling and it really brightens the place up. I also applied OSB to the bottom 4' of walls and sheetrocked the top 8' and painted it all with semigloss white, nice and bright.Dont forget to put in cieling drop outlets while you are at it for drop lites and extension cords.

Next I installed 2 rows of 8' 2 bulb High output flourescent light fixtures 10 feet from each other, 4 lights in each row. High outputs are brighter and will light in low temp aplications. although usually heated They have started with no problem when the inside temp was 20 degrees farenheit. I paid about $40 each with the bulbs from an electrical supply house, but you could probably get them from home depot or lowes.

any other questions email me.

Matt S

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fredo

09-25-2003 19:07:31




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 Re: Shop lighting, looking for ideas in reply to Andy, 09-25-2003 18:18:37  
andy 6 parabolic light fixtures should do it nicely. they cover a spot of 20 sq.feet each. 68.00 last ones i bought, you might find a busness going broke and check with them when tearing building down.you have to put in a couple of incadesenst's too because it takes a couple of minutes for these fixtures to come on. seperate the two circuits though.[seperate switch on both] 250 watts. they take cold weather in saginaw michigan.
fredo.

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Larry806

09-25-2003 18:31:05




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 Re: Shop lighting, looking for ideas in reply to Andy, 09-25-2003 18:18:37  
I guess that depends how old you are ( just kidding) I have a 40x54 shop when I built it in 1979 I had 6 4ft lights in it. Over the years I've had to have more light. Couple years ago I decided it was time to do it right & bought 20 new 8 ft flourescent lights That's none to many. I don't know about cold wheather starting my shop is always heated Larry



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ret

09-25-2003 19:10:13




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 Re: Re: Shop lighting, looking for ideas in reply to Larry806, 09-25-2003 18:31:05  
Nephew in Ia just bought some lights that look like flourescents, but in each end there is a halergon bulb. I tried to find some in Va , but no luck. Northern has them in their catalog this year. They put out heat, which would be good in cold weather.Also, he said they really light the place up. Might want to check them out. Whatever you do, don't buy cheapie lights, too much trouble with them REt

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