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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

Rose Bud Heating Problems

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Tom

09-19-2003 21:07:27




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Today I was using my rosebud tip to heat some harrow parts that I needed to bend back straight. Several times the rosebud started popping like a machine gun - very loud repetetive pops. The only way I could get it to stop was shut off both aceteline and oxygen. I need you experts (like ole TBone) to tell me what I did wrong and how to avoid it. I was running acet @ 14 lbs, oxy at 28 lbs. Tank pressures were OK. Thanks for your help. I have to use it tomorrow.

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ted

09-21-2003 18:18:38




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 Re: Rose Bud Heating Problems in reply to Tom, 09-19-2003 21:07:27  
If your torch has o-rings you might want to check to be sure they're still on and in good condition, could be drawing in air or mixing in the handle



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Tom

09-20-2003 15:44:59




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 Re: Rose Bud Heating Problems in reply to Tom, 09-19-2003 21:07:27  
Thanks to all. I must have read the wrong line in my torch operator manual. I will reduce the pressure to what T-Bone said, clean the tip holes, check for leaks, and thank goodness that I didn't blow up anything. I will be using again shortly and will no doubt see the difference. Thanks again.



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mhmalcolm

09-20-2003 14:53:50




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 Re: Rose Bud Heating Problems in reply to Tom, 09-19-2003 21:07:27  
I echo what the others have said about the tip being dirty and the oxy and acetylene pressures being too high. I want to emphasize what some of the others have said about acetylene becoming explosive at 15 psi. Acetylene is stable in the cylinder at higher pressures than this because it is mixed with acetone. Once the acetylene leaves the cyinder it is highly unstable. I never run over 10 psi acetylene even with a rosebud tip. If the acetylene in the torch handle and hoses catches fire and burns back to the tank, the tank can explode with enough force to destroy your shop, garage, or house with you along with it. BE CAREFUL !!!!! !!!

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T_Bone

09-20-2003 10:38:11




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 Re: Rose Bud Heating Problems in reply to Tom, 09-19-2003 21:07:27  
Hi Tom,

All the answers from the guys is a reason for your problems.

The only one that didn't get mentioned was a suction air leak at the tip(most likely for a air leak) or at one of the hose connections or a leaking valve.

As stated, your pressures are way too high for the task at hand. At 7psi Acet and 20psi Oxy is more than enough to heat a 3" solid shaft for strightening. It takes some time to preheat the metal. Your trying to work too fast.

If your working on harrow spring tines, then you will need to combine cold working metal with hot working methods. You want to heat the spring just enough to where it will bend where you need it to bend but not hot enough that it distroys the spring properities of the steel.

Where's the heat range at for proper temperature? You got me as I've never straighten harrow springs :)

My guess is about 700* then apply the ole" pipe cheater (cold method) to straighten then quench in oil (removes stress) then reheat too 500* then quench in oil (gives back the spring temper).

Hope that someone will chime in with experience working with harrow springs.

T_Bone

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Tom

09-20-2003 15:50:41




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 Re: Re: Rose Bud Heating Problems in reply to T_Bone, 09-20-2003 10:38:11  
Thanks T-Bone. These are not springs, they are 3/4 inch square steel about 9 inches long. It is a shop made spike tooth harrow. The spikes are not adjustable, they are welded into channel iron, which was punched out and the spikes inserted so that they pull toward one corner, like a diamond shape. Some were bent over and I had to heat the channel iron to straighten them up a bit. Then I rewelded them just in case I had cracked the welds. I make a three point lift for it, to make it easy to turn around in tight spaces. The thing does an outstanding job of smoothing out tandem disk ridges and cuts. Really leaves the ground smooth and firms up the seed bed. Again, thanks.

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Ol Chief

09-20-2003 06:23:35




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 Re: Rose Bud Heating Problems in reply to Tom, 09-19-2003 21:07:27  
I have had the same experience.Flame goes out with a loud pop,then a whistle and fire starts back in the torch handle. I've spent a couple of years trying to figure this out and finally got the answer in a shipyard where they use very large to huge rosebuds.Often use several of these several torches simultaneously to heat large dented areas on a ships hull.After it reaches the right temperature,several firehoses are turned on the area and the sudden temp.change will pull out the dent, at least to some degree. Then the area is reheated to stress relieve.They are often working on 3/4" plate so the radiation really heats up those rosebuds. I consulted with these experts and got the answer to the problem.Acetylene cylinders have an inside filler of diatomaceous earth and acetone.When you are using a large draw off of one cylinder an effervesent or boiling effect occurs at which time the acetone is carried over to the torch and the flame goes out.Possibly with dangerous results.The remedy is to use more than one cylinder connected with a manifold to prevent excessive draw on one unit or reduce the tip size to limit use of gas.Excessive heating of the tip also seem to have a bearing oh this situation

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rustyfarmall

09-20-2003 06:14:42




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 Re: Rose Bud Heating Problems in reply to Tom, 09-19-2003 21:07:27  
OL CHIEF has the correct answer, which is the very reason I do not own a rosebud heating tip.



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Ol Chief

09-20-2003 05:46:30




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 Re: Rose Bud Heating Problems in reply to Tom, 09-19-2003 21:07:27  
I have had the same experience.Flame goes out with a loud pop,then a whistle and fire starts back in the torch handle. I've spent a couple of years trying to figure this out and finally got the answer in a shipyard where they use very large to huge rosebuds.Often use several of these several torches simultaneously to heat large dented areas on a ships hull.After it reaches the right temperature,several firehoses are turned on the area and the sudden temp.change will pull out the dent, at least to some degree. Then the area is reheated to stress relieve.They are often working on 3/4" plate so the radiation really heats up those rosebuds. I consulted with these experts and got the answer to the problem.Acetylene cylinders have an inside filler of diatomaceous earth and acetone.When you are using a large draw off of one cylinder an effervesent or boiling effect occurs at which time the acetone is carried over to the torch and the flame goes out.Possibly with dangerous results.The remedy is to use more than one cylinder connected with a manifold to prevent excessive draw on one unit or reduce the tip size to limit use of gas.Excessive heating of the tip also seem to have a bearing oh this situation

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Jerry L / az

09-20-2003 05:41:58




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 Re: Rose Bud Heating Problems in reply to Tom, 09-19-2003 21:07:27  
dirty tip get a tip cleaner and clean all the holes in the tip may have slag pluging the ports hope it helps..... ...Jer



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Farmer/Paul

09-20-2003 04:29:18




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 Re: Rose Bud Heating Problems in reply to Tom, 09-19-2003 21:07:27  
I would think that your acetylene pressure is to high . Check the manufacturer of the tips web site for their recomended pressure settings.

Caution is needed when you start running Actylene pressures that high, above 15psig it will become dangerous/explosive.



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george md

09-19-2003 23:05:17




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 Re: Rose Bud Heating Problems in reply to Tom, 09-19-2003 21:07:27  
Tom ,

Tip is getting to hot , need to keep it out of the fire or get more flow thru it to cool it.

george



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Rod (NH)

09-19-2003 21:30:40




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 Re: Rose Bud Heating Problems in reply to Tom, 09-19-2003 21:07:27  
Hi Tom,

Unless you have a HUGE rosebud, I think your pressures are too high. I run my Harris rosebud at 8 psig for both the oxy and the acet. If you have the manufacturer's suggested max and min pressures for your particular tip, use them. Otherwise, I would try equal pressures that are lower. third party image Rod

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