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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

Just poured concrete--some questions

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Travis

09-17-2003 20:31:11




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Hey all,

Just had a new shop built a couple weeks ago and poured some concrete today, I had a question or two. How long before I can set my tool box on the slab and how long before I can drive something on it? My tool box I don't suppose weighs over 1000lbs as My brother and I lifted the bottom section into the back of my 3" lifted truck and the top section went in pretty easily also. Will also be setting an old Forney welder on it and a couple of other lighter things on it. The heaviest tractor for a while will be no larger than a 1066 or so(12,000lbs+/-). Just wanted to know your guys opinions. Had a couple of neighbors over today and help pour it and found out one of them knew how to use a bull float pretty good. Looks really good, but want to know your guys opinion on how to take care of it.
Poured 6.5 yards--not a big pour but big enough for the people pouring it. Still ended up 3 ft short of the main pour--don't know how, me and the concrete guy added 1/2 yard, and I was really accurate on my grading--figured maybe he may have shorted me accidentally, but what to do? Anyway, thanks for any advice.

P.S. Thought I would mention that I poured the section to drive on 6 inches deep and the part to set my box on at 4 inches and it was C-4 (?) he called it a highway grade--the same thing poured in the highway. Paid $72/yard for it.

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Travis

09-19-2003 04:34:30




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 Re: Just poured concrete--some questions in reply to Travis, 09-17-2003 20:31:11  
Thank you all so much for the all the replies. I have kept the slab watered down so far. I have one 12'x20'x6" slab and another one that is 6'x20'x4", I will be pouring another pad that will be 12'x20'x6" to connect the two, but this is what I needed to get going and had a couple unexpected costs related to the shop so had to put off the last slab. Thank you all for the replies, you've all been a big help.

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Mark

09-18-2003 08:43:01




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 Re: Just poured concrete--some questions in reply to Travis, 09-17-2003 20:31:11  
Hey all you can follow the link below to learn more about linseed and it's uses. This is one of the approved brands.

http://www.wrmeadows.com/wrm00035.htm



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Dennis

09-18-2003 06:55:01




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 Re: Just poured concrete--some questions in reply to Travis, 09-17-2003 20:31:11  
I would keep the surface wet to soaked for 7 days if possible. This will get the strength to its maximum in the shortest time. It will continue to gain strength through 28 days and beyond. I would not use linseed oil. I would get a high grade of sealer. L&M Construction products had what was called Superseal 35. I applied this to my garage floor and you can easily clean oil and grease off with minimal soap and water. That product should be put on the concrete after 30 days and it is not an epoxy based material (forget what the actual chemical makeup is). Hope this helps. Also, on the saw cuts. Saw cutting should be done within 8 hours as the concrete is already building a stress and the cracks are forming. The saw cut will control where the cracks show up on your floor. Good Luck.

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Mark

09-18-2003 08:08:33




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 Re: Re: Just poured concrete--some questions in reply to Dennis, 09-18-2003 06:55:01  
Linseed oil is about 5 times cheaper than any type of high grade sealer. It is simply a monitary choice. he spent good money on the concrete and thus might not want to spend as much on the sealer. If however you do want a high grade sealer you can get any master builders or other product out there for about $0.20 a sf roughly. There are so many products out there though.. who knows! Good input Dennis! Thanks.

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Mattlt

09-18-2003 06:24:28




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 Re: Just poured concrete--some questions in reply to Travis, 09-17-2003 20:31:11  
My .02

Place the welder up on a couple 2x4 blocks, so it sits off the concrete. The moisture will be coming out of the slab for a while, not to mention yearly freeze/thaw cycles (depending on where you're located)



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Mark

09-18-2003 04:49:25




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 Re: Just poured concrete--some questions in reply to Travis, 09-17-2003 20:31:11  
Travis I am a civil engineer and work for the PA DOT so please listen on what to do with your concrete.

Highway grade concrete which is what you apparently bought and from the price that sounds about right also.

First on curing:

Watering down the top is an excellant idea. Any type of curing compound is also a good idea. After 7 days you should spray it with Lynseed oil and the top will last forever

on when to put stuff on it:

Highway grade mixes (3000 psi most likely is your mix) cure in 7 days. Full cure is in 28 days.
So PLEASE WAIT at least 3 days before the tool boxes and 7 days before the tractor. Personally i'd wait 14 days for hte tractor.

Complete cure of that concrete will actually take up to a year. Most people don't realize that though.

If you have any more questions please ask. I'll try to help.

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Ben in KY

09-18-2003 06:18:37




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 Re: Re: Just poured concrete--some questions in reply to Mark , 09-18-2003 04:49:25  
Mark,
What does the linseed oil do ? Also boiled or raw oil ?



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Mark

09-18-2003 08:18:52




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 Re: Re: Re: Just poured concrete--some questions in reply to Ben in KY, 09-18-2003 06:18:37  
Boiled drys much faster so that is what is used 99% of the time.

It is simply a sealer that is cheaper than some of the high grade sealers out there. There will probably be alot of argument about this as to what to seal it with etc. but if you want to look at the facts if Highway standards dept's use it it is a GOOD product I can assure you of that. It undergoes alot of testing. The state like anyone else trys to save money but get the best job and this is one product that accomplishes that.

It is actually used for sealing numerous things other than concrete too.

If you have the cash though and are willing to spend it a high grade sealer from Master Builders would do a nice job also.

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Ben in KY

09-18-2003 08:33:14




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Just poured concrete--some questio in reply to Mark, 09-18-2003 08:18:52  
Mark,
Yes I have used linseed oil for wood protecting for about 30 years. Works great on tool handles and as a primer for oilbased paints on porch floors. Using it I was able to get 20 years + out of pine flooring on a porch, when topped with oil based porch floor paint. Just never used it on concrete.



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Mr.T

09-18-2003 05:23:42




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 Re: Re: Just poured concrete--some questions in reply to Mark , 09-18-2003 04:49:25  
Mark,
I will be pouring concrete after Iszy blows out.
The pad is 24x36 x 6" of fibercrete.
What does the lindseed do? Is it to be poured on and then you sweep it around so it is ,lets say,one-eigth of an inch thick?
How long do you let it sit?
Are you to remove with floor sweep?
I was going to paint the floor in 2004 with epoxy paint. Is any extra prepwork required?
Thanks, Mr.T

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Mark

09-18-2003 08:26:09




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 Re: Re: Re: Just poured concrete--some questions in reply to Mr.T, 09-18-2003 05:23:42  
Mr. T

Linseed is a sealer. see above response!

It is applied usually with a simply spray vacuum canister. It is to be applied 7 days or more after the pour. You usually want a clean surface to put it on though. After you apply it you only need to wait another day for dry time. Two coats are recommended but 3 or 4 won't hurt it either. It is sprayed on in a thin layer.

ALL that said though if you plan on using an epoxy paint you probably want to actually use a curing compound instead of the linseed. Curing compound creates a barrier to keep in the moisture longer thus making the concrete cure slower. You will want to apply that one day after the pour. Or as soon as you walk on the concrete. I would leave it go at that and then next year the epoxy should bond quite well because the curing compound will be gone by then.

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Mark

09-18-2003 04:53:52




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 Re: Re: Just poured concrete--some questions in reply to Mark , 09-18-2003 04:49:25  
SOrry i forgot to include the Sawcut/expansion jts.

The depth should be 1/4 of the thickness. If the slab is 4 inches your joint should be 1 inch depth. but for only 6.5 yards i wouldn't think you would even need any to be honest. I don't know the Sq Footage though and that is how you determine them. Roughly speaking for a 4 inch slab you only need 1 jt for every 5 cu yards.



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Indydirtfarmer

09-18-2003 04:19:18




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 Re: Just poured concrete--some questions in reply to Travis, 09-17-2003 20:31:11  
Kurt's suggestion about "watering the concrete has good merrit. Concrete gets stronger if it dries slower. It also has to cool to dry strong. The chemical reaction between the lime and the water in concrete mix, generates tremendous heat. When the Hoover dam was built, they installed water pipes in the concrete, to pump cold water through, to cool it, so it would dry all the way through. If you have ever noticed on highway construction, that they cover the freshly poured concrete with canvas. That is to make it dry slower, and more evenly. I am not sure of the time-line, but concrete take years to reach it's maximum hardness. It does, however, reach approximately 90% hardness, in a matter of a few days. The saw-cuts Kurt was referring to, won't actually "prevent" the concrete from cracking. They are called "control joints" or "control cuts". They make it crack in a straight and controlled line, rather than just breaking wherever it wants to. Any slab of concrete, that is very big, will crack eventually. The control joints just let you dictate where it does crack. If you do cut control joints, they don't have to be all the way through the slab. Usually a cut that is 20% to 25% of the way through, will be sufficient.

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KURT (mi)

09-18-2003 02:36:24




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 Re: Just poured concrete--some questions in reply to Travis, 09-17-2003 20:31:11  
One thing I am going to add and that is spray it with water now. do this for a couple of days. You may already be doing this. Then get a concrete saw and cut some lines to prevent cracking. I would wait a few days before driving on it.



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Wayne

09-17-2003 21:38:35




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 Re: Just poured concrete--some questions in reply to Travis, 09-17-2003 20:31:11  
Hey Travis you should to be able to put your stuff on it in a few days depending on the weather in your area. The hotter it is the faster the concrete will set up. Still, if it were mine, I'd wait at least a week just to be safe, especially with something like the tool box that is gonna have all the weight resting on just the few square inches the casters offer. After doing maintenance at a concrete plant for over a year, I'd have to say that one of a couple things probably happened to make you come up short. First the concrete is mixed by the weight of the different materials, sand, concrete, stone, and often flyash. It's either weighed up dry in a scale and dumped into the truck and followed by the water, to mix (Drybatch), or weighed up and put into a mixer first and then loaded in the truck wet. Either way if the scale is off you may lose some material. Then if you take into account that inside of the truck probably had buildup from previous pours, this will sometimes not allow the truck to discharge the entire load, and if it was mixed before putting on the truck, then you double the chance of that happening. Beyond that the only things left are not figuring in enough extra which is really common, as well as the concrete company purposley shorting a load. Half a yard here, half a yard there, it adds up to alot over time. Not to mention the extra they usually charge for a callback to bring that extra 1/2 yard out to you when you have to have it to finish.
Just my .02...

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