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bolt question

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chris smith

08-16-2003 18:39:55




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I need a muffler bolt for a poulan chain saw. It has a 5/16 head, fine thread, and the bolt itself is just a tad smaller than than a 1/4 inch bolt. it fits in 15/64 size hole. I have one of those plastic things with all the holes drilled in it, it slid in this hole. and since a 1/4 bolt fit the 1/4 hole i am guessing it might be 15/64 bolt? But never seen a bolt less than 1/4, with out changing to strictly numbers. So any idea what size i need to look for??

Thanks!

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carhartted

08-23-2003 15:49:45




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 Re: bolt question in reply to chris smith, 08-16-2003 18:39:55  
Here is what I do if I am uncertain of a bolts thread patter. I go to Home depot or Lowes, which is better. They have all the bins of both metric and standard bolts and nuts. Take a nut and see if it will thread on the bolt. If it does not thread on easy try a differnt one until you find one that fits right. Then find the bolt that matches the thread pitch and size of the nut.

Jonathan Fairbanks, AK

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PJW

08-18-2003 05:41:16




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 Re: bolt question in reply to chris smith, 08-16-2003 18:39:55  
If the old bolt measures under a 1/4" say .23 or so it is likley a 6mm. The standard pitch or most used is 6mm x 1.0 (pitch. Most good hardware stores should have a metric selection.



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Super A Man

08-18-2003 04:05:59




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 Re: bolt question in reply to chris smith, 08-16-2003 18:39:55  
I'd have to go along with everyone else here, you've probably got a metric bolt there. These days anything is a mix and match game, you never know what it's gonna be. There are several examples given here already, but here is one more. On most General Motors vehicles made since the mid 80s or so, the lug nuts are standard 3/4 or 7/8 hex, but the threads are metric! I'll have to admit, I've never actually measured the size of the stud, but I'd be willing to bet it's metric too. At least on my 52 Farmall, I'm fairly certain, it's all SAE, well except for the stupid rain cap I bought at TSC the other day that has a 10mm bolt on it.

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Jim WI

08-19-2003 10:52:56




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 Re: Re: bolt question in reply to Super A Man, 08-18-2003 04:05:59  
Check the sparkplugs -- they most likely have metric threads.



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Wayne

08-16-2003 22:06:47




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 Re: bolt question in reply to chris smith, 08-16-2003 18:39:55  
Reading the answers to the question Chris asked I's have to agree that the bolt is metric. It doesn't seem to matter where something is made anymore for it to be a mismatched mess of std and metric sizes. The real problem is telling them apart. Usually the metric bolts have a grade marking of like 8.8 or whatever while the std bolts have the line markings for the different grades, but if their a "no grade" bolt then neither has any marking which can make things difficult. That's bad enough, but her's the kicker. Like one of the replys states, I haven't seen any metric bolts with standard markings, but I have run into standard bolts with metric markings. I spent 2 hours one day running around looking for a "metric" bolt with the same thread pitch as the one I had ,with no luck. It came off a Lebierer track loader and had a 10.9 marking on the head, so that along with the make of machine made me sure it was metric. After 2 hours of looking I went back to the machine in discust and was gonna redrill and tap the hole to a standard size. That's when I discovered that my 'metric' bolt was actually a plain ole 5/8 course thread. I felt really stupid for a while but I had never seen metric head markings on a std bolt before. In talking around to other mechanics I run into I have yet to run up on one that has seen this themselves. So, fair warning, if you have a bolt and your not sure, check it for both metric and std pitch. Don't take anything for granted anymore except the fact that they ought to take everybody involved in bringing the metric system to the US and screwing things up and return them back to Europe where they belong. Just my .02

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bolt guy

08-18-2003 10:43:16




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 Re: Re: bolt question in reply to Wayne, 08-16-2003 22:06:47  
Wayne, I don't want to make you mad and I'm not trying to be a now-it-all, but I work for the largest bolt company in the country. There is no inch series sizes that carry metric markings. That's the way the system is set up. You managed to squeeze a 5/8" - 11 bolt into that hole because the metric m16 - 2.0 is almost exactly the same size and will thread into most holes if they are tapped oversized slightly. Just thought I'd let you know so that if it happens again, you can be sure you need to be looking for a metric bolt if it is marked with metric grade markings.

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hey bolt guy...

08-19-2003 06:53:05




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 Re: Re: Re: bolt question in reply to bolt guy, 08-18-2003 10:43:16  
i understand that your company may not make sae bolts with metric markings, and im sure it is not supposed to be done, but it is done and i have run across a few myself. who knows where they were from, probably china or whatever where there is very little for means of standards enforcement. and trust me i am a machinist so i know how to identify a thread as sae or metric



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Bob

08-24-2003 14:40:20




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: bolt question in reply to hey bolt guy..., 08-19-2003 06:53:05  
If you know how to identify a "thread as sae or metric" you should know the term is correctly metric or INCH, sae threads are now correctly referred to as UNF (fine thread) and coarse threads are UNC. Unless they have changed it again.



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Rod (NH)

08-18-2003 11:36:11




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 Re: Re: Re: bolt question in reply to bolt guy, 08-18-2003 10:43:16  
Hi Bolt Guy,

Your post reminded me of an interesting lesson I learned some years ago. The vast majority (if not all) of Honda and Toyota automotive engines have a 1/8-28 pipe thread tapping in the block for the oil pressure sensor. That's a British Standard Pipe Thread - 1/8-28 BSP. Unusual for a Japanese manufacturer to use what really is a British standard, but it's true. Most everyone that installs a tee or other fitting in that tapping to add an aftermarket pressure gage simply uses a US 1/8-27 NPT thread. I have had people INSIST that the tapping is an NPT thread. But it's not. One can, in fact, jam a male NPT into a female BSP (at least in that nominal size) due to the close pitch - only one TPI difference. That's not the correct method though. That's why adapters are made to do the job properly. The pitch difference is so close, you have to look carefully with a pitch gage but it is there.

third party image Rod

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RickB.

08-17-2003 03:34:38




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 Re: Re: bolt question in reply to Wayne, 08-16-2003 22:06:47  
Certain Ford 3 cylinder tractors use flange head bolts with USS threads and 10.8 stamped on the head to fasten the drawbar support to the rear axle.



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Paul Janke

08-16-2003 20:26:28




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 Re: bolt question in reply to chris smith, 08-16-2003 18:39:55  
7/16" is quite close to 11 mm.



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Rod (NH)

08-16-2003 18:58:24




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 Re: bolt question in reply to chris smith, 08-16-2003 18:39:55  
Hi Chris,

My guess would be that it is a metric size bolt. A 6mm would be just a touch smaller than 1/4"; more like 15/64. The metric series also have different thread pitches so I would suggest you look for a 6mm bolt with the correct pitch. If you do not have a metric pitch gage, take your bolt to a supplier and get a bolt to match it.

third party image Rod

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chris smith

08-16-2003 19:00:57




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 Re: Re: bolt question in reply to Rod (NH), 08-16-2003 18:58:24  
I was thinking my poulan was usa built, and if it was metric wouldn't it take a metric socket to remove??

thanks!!



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Rod (NH)

08-16-2003 20:10:30




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 Re: Re: Re: bolt question in reply to chris smith, 08-16-2003 19:00:57  
It really doesn't matter anymore where anything is built. Metric is everywhere. My old Chev truck is a damned mix of SAE and metric.

That head size is interesting though. A new, standard 6mm hex head bolt has an across-the-flats dimension of about 0.386". It is for a normal 10mm socket or wrench. It is too large for SAE size 3/8" and too small for SAE size 7/16" sockets or wrenches. It is reasonably close to the 3/8" one though. If either the bolt head or the wrench was worn a little, it could fit.

I suppose it could be a "special" head size for some reason. Is there any potential for an interference with anything by using a little larger hex head? If not, I would forget about the head size and concentrate on getting a fit with the thread.

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Mac

08-16-2003 19:16:01




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 Re: Re: Re: bolt question in reply to chris smith, 08-16-2003 19:00:57  
cant recall ever seeing a metric bolt with std head. But anymore with this mix and match setup, its hard telling. USA made dont mean no metric. My GMC is a mix and match setup, never know which tool box to grab. Sometimes a std wrench will half way fit the metric head, if it is questionable, have the shop check it with a thread guage.



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chris

08-16-2003 19:14:40




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 Re: Re: Re: bolt question in reply to chris smith, 08-16-2003 19:00:57  
Chris, some of the metric sizes are close to inch sizes, like 8 and 5/16, 13 and 1/2, 14 and 9/16, 16 and 5/8, 19 and 3/4, 24 and 15/16, 30 and 1 3/16.



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