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Pole Barns Concrete Floors

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IH230

06-06-2003 13:34:16




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I am planning to build a new shop (40 x 64). Considering a pole barn with a concrete floor. Here in southeastern Missouri, folks seem to pour the floor using the splash plates (bottom horizontal 2x) to act as the form. This results in the poles being embedded in the concrete on three sides. What has been your experience with this method? Any premature pole failures? Other opportunities? Any advantage to boxing the poles, such that the concrete does not contact the poles? Thanks in advance for your thoughts and suggestions.

If $'s were not tight, I would pour footings and a 3 foot stem wall and build stud walls or erect a red iron building.

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Pat/WV

06-12-2003 18:21:08




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 Re: Pole Barns Concrete Floors in reply to IH230, 06-06-2003 13:34:16  
well i used to drive mixer truck and finish concrete. if youre worried about the concrete touching the poles, the wrap some typar around the poles at least 4 inces above the height of the concrete to be poured. that will take car of the acidic reaction the concrete will have when it touches the pole. also, if youre not going to have that much weight on the concrete floor, then order a lower bag mix of concrete, theyll just replace it with fly ash.

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Jim B.

06-08-2003 17:04:12




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 Re: Pole Barns Concrete Floors in reply to IH230, 06-06-2003 13:34:16  
Since you haven't begun yet, Run the numbers for a US Buildings Quonset type, Add a 4 ft poured wall to set the arch on, full poured footed slab, add 1" isulation under the floor, 50 cents a foot for heat tube, (one lin ft per sq ft) and what a barn you'll have. Same price as pole barn plus insulation. I love mine, very easy to heat, and it stays clean inside. Just not as pretty as a square one.

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PJW

06-08-2003 04:32:40




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 Re: Pole Barns Concrete Floors in reply to IH230, 06-06-2003 13:34:16  
As in wood foundation use .6 retention treated poles and you won�t have a problem. Wood foundations are rated for 75 years. May people make the mistake of using .4 retention poles and that wood is no rated for underground use. I have even seen lumberyards put together deck kits with the wrong rated retention wood. An expansion strip is fine to protect yourself from movement.



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Mike

06-07-2003 11:05:06




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 Re: Pole Barns Concrete Floors in reply to IH230, 06-06-2003 13:34:16  
In my building the concrete was poured right up against the posts but shrank back a little when dried. One thing differant I did do is to use overhead doors so they seal up and keep the birds out. I poured a separate footer almost 3 feet deep 1 foot or so wide all the way across my
door openings to drive over and keep frost from heaving up under my doors. Then I poured my floor in a separate slab up to my footer but not over it. So far my doors still seal perfect after 4 yrs.

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Richard Fazio

06-07-2003 04:22:05




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 Re: Pole Barns Concrete Floors in reply to IH230, 06-06-2003 13:34:16  
I've got a pole barn 48' X 60' and have exactly what you want to do. It worked out perfectly. The barn is a Morton. I did the slab myself. I did line the posts and all around the edge of the barn with black expansion joint material as per morton specs. My slab is 6". On the outside the ground is almost as high as the top of the slab and graded away from the building as suggested in other posts. One thing I noticed is I did the slab in the summer. In the winter the slab shrinks an pulls away from the posts slightly. I wouldn't pour in cold weather the slab would expand and ?

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RA

06-06-2003 20:52:19




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 Re: Pole Barns Concrete Floors in reply to IH230, 06-06-2003 13:34:16  
The best way to protect the the poles is by installing gutters and gradeing around the shed where water gets a way from the shed



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buck

06-06-2003 20:12:15




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 Re: Pole Barns Concrete Floors in reply to IH230, 06-06-2003 13:34:16  

I think you have reason for concern for any wood put in the ground will ultimately fail and is generally accepted that in your situation it will fail before the surrounding concrete. Not knowing the ultimate design of your pole barn and whether or not the poles will be a part of the lateral support of the building I do not know if placing the poles in the ground is necessary. Is it possible that the post hole an that portion up to the surface of the concrete floor can be filled with concrete as a seperate footing just to support the pole.

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Mike

06-06-2003 18:54:35




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 Re: Pole Barns Concrete Floors in reply to IH230, 06-06-2003 13:34:16  
T-Bones comment makes sense, my pole bldg has some washout at the edges. A friend of mine always dug post holes in overhead door openings to act as footing to support the floor for heavy equipment being moved. Also remember there is a direct correlation between how much crap we have and how much space we dont. My .02 Mike



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Paul Janke

06-06-2003 18:47:30




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 Re: Pole Barns Concrete Floors in reply to IH230, 06-06-2003 13:34:16  
It's my understanding that the concrete will not bother the posts as long as it doesn't go clear to the bottom of the posts. If the bottom of the post in in concrete, the moisture can't get away and that's what rots the posts. Same goes for pouring concrete around gate posts and such. Leave the bottom of the post below the concrete.



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Greg

06-06-2003 18:27:23




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 Re: Pole Barns Concrete Floors in reply to IH230, 06-06-2003 13:34:16  
I`m not sure if it was right or not, but the pole barn garage I had at our old place I lined the inside bottom with that black expansion joint material, then poured the floor.



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T_Bone

06-06-2003 13:51:35




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 Re: Pole Barns Concrete Floors in reply to IH230, 06-06-2003 13:34:16  
Hi IH230,

Anytime you pour a slab and don't put in a footer you stand the chance of wash out under the edge of the pad. I would pour a footer where I was going to be moving in the heavy equipment to keep from breaking the slab as you drive on to it.

Earth rots wood faster than concrete will. I would treat the bottom and sides of the poles reguardless of method.

T_Bone



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JerryU

06-09-2003 04:12:00




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 Re: Re: Pole Barns Concrete Floors in reply to T_Bone, 06-06-2003 13:51:35  
Check local codes. Around here (se Michigan) you need a "rat wall" which is a 4" X 24"deep concrete wall under the perimeter of the slab to prevent burrowing critters from nesting under the slab (rats, woodchucks, and the like). Since these must be put under the slab, and if the barn is up, they must go from post to post. Guess how you have to dig them?

JU



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