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ARK Welding question?

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Kelly C

05-28-2003 17:57:44




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I know you guys are going to get sick of me asking so many stupid questions. But here is another one.
I am welding the cross beams onto my trailer,
3/16 square tube onto 1/8th square tube.
The tops of the yubes weld ok. good penatration and a strong weld. Its the sides of the tubes that are a pain. The molten steel is just running down the tube and not sticking where I want it.
I been playing with the amperage a bit. Lowering the amperage seems to help but not totaly it still runs all over and globs up.
Am I suppose to be flipping this big trailer onto its side so I can weld flat or is there some trick I need to know?
Thanks for your paintence guys.
Kelly

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Pat/WV

06-12-2003 18:34:50




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 Re: ARK Welding question? in reply to Kelly C, 05-28-2003 17:57:44  
if you gotta weld vertical, with that size tubing, then use a 7018 rod, voltage around 120 or 130 for good penetration, hold the rod a 45 degrees, and weld from top to bottom. itll look crappy till you knock the slag off of it.



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KX

05-29-2003 09:38:51




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 Re: ARK Welding question? in reply to Kelly C, 05-28-2003 17:57:44  
Kelly,
My advice is use 6011, clean the slag very good after each pass and you may have to make multiple passes or at least partial passes to fill hollow spots. With experience you will get better and better at this and not need as many passes. I use a 4 1/2 inch angle grinder with a good twisted wire brush to clean up the slag and find hollow spots or unbonded areas. Any wire wheel will not last very good. The best I have ever found is made by Forney part number 72190. They are pretty expensive but worth every penny as they clean a weld great and last if not abused. You can also clean steel before welding very good with these. Anyway, just some of my backyard self learned tricks. oh and Practice, practice, practice.

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KX

05-30-2003 07:59:59




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 Re: Re: ARK Welding question? in reply to KX, 05-29-2003 09:38:51  
OH I forgot to mention, WEAR A FULL FACE SHIELD if you use the wire brush on a angle grinder. It WILL throw wire hard enough to break your skin.



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BFO

05-29-2003 05:52:20




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 Re: ARK Welding question? in reply to Kelly C, 05-28-2003 17:57:44  
I think you'll find that it's faster to flip the trailer than to mess with verticles, IMHO, especially for a small trailer and you'll have the solid welds in a position that you're experienced and comfortable making. This trailer is for on-road use right?



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Paul Janke

05-28-2003 19:07:53




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 Re: ARK Welding question? in reply to Kelly C, 05-28-2003 17:57:44  
6011 rod is supposed to be about the easiest for vertical welding because it is quick freezing. I was taught to weld vertical up, not down. Weave in kind of a U pattern, going the slowest across the bottom. The rod should be held with the work end higher by up to about 20 degrees above horizontal. If I am giving you bad information I hope others will set things straight.



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Kelly C

05-28-2003 19:55:59




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 Re: Re: ARK Welding question? in reply to Paul Janke, 05-28-2003 19:07:53  
Ok Thanks. I am using 6013 rods now. I have a small box of 6011 that I will try tomorow. The rest of your advise is what I am doing now.
I hope the 6011's help.



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Rusty Rick in TX

05-28-2003 19:18:49




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 Re: Re: ARK Welding question? in reply to Paul Janke, 05-28-2003 19:07:53  
You are right on here kind sir.



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T_Bone

05-28-2003 20:37:04




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 Re: Re: Re: ARK Welding question? in reply to Rusty Rick in TX, 05-28-2003 19:18:49  
Hi Kelly,

Theres no such thing as a stupid question. Not asking the question is stupid. I've reposted one of my ramblings on verticle welding:


Vertical up welding is fairly easy to do once you get the hang of it. Electrode angle pays a very important roll, about 5* to 10* down from horizontal, 0* works best sometimes, and you need your head below the rod to see the weld puddle with a close arc length and a slightly faster travel speed.

Vertical down welds are allowed by code and are limited to 2" in length on fillet welds but most welds fail when ran verticle down as it's very easy to trap slag with in the molten puddle. I only recomend very experienced welders use vertical down. Learn verticle up first!

Now most welders watch the "slag" in the molten puddle and not the molten puddle it's self and that causes the molten puddle to fall or the weld puddle will slump before the welder moves the rod upward. Thats why we teach you to weld flat first so you can reconize the weld puddle from the slag. If you can see the difference in the weld puddle and the slag, then do not let the slag take your attenion away from the motlen puddle in the vertical position like it does to most weldors.

A vertical weave bead is made by starting a weld puddle then moving horzontial, 8 rod diameters max, then pause slightly to deposit more weld, move up 1/2 rod diameter, then back to the starting point. The horizontal move should be fairly fast so if the weld slumps in the center then your moving too slow. If the ends are under cut then your not pausing long enough at the corners. Take a stratch awl making two vertical lines will help you keep the weld straight and uniform width.

The 8 times the rod diameter maximum is so the slag does not cool before you return to deposit more metal.

My method of teaching is to have the welder try to move too fast, too slow, long arc length, short arc length, rod angle at 45*, at 5*, too many amps, too low of amps, etc: and pay close attention to the changes each makes in the weld. That way when you have a problem you will remember what caused that problem and you will know how to correct it. I reverse teach, "what makes a bad weld". If you know what makes a bad weld then you will know how to correct it when you make that mistake.

This is also where your plastic welding lens will fail you the most. You now have two weld puddles due to the distortion of the plastic lens.

Which one is the true weld puddle? Only use all glass lens.

T_Bone

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Kelly C

05-28-2003 22:10:17




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: ARK Welding question? in reply to T_Bone, 05-28-2003 20:37:04  
Thanks T-Bone.
I printed those words of advice.



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T_Bone

05-29-2003 05:48:50




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ARK Welding question? in reply to Kelly C, 05-28-2003 22:10:17  
Hi Kelly,

You need to practice welding on something other than your trailer your building as there's a safety concern.

I would suggest you grab some scrap and take a few days and just practice running beads until they look pretty good. Then set up a few bend tests as you did before. If the welds break fairly even, then if you keep the weld clean, remove slag between passes, you should be ok.

Another good way to test welds is to cut accross the weld with a torch, then grind, then sand smooth. The smoother the finish the more weld detail you can see.

This will let you look at how much penetration, slag and weld unformity your getting in your welds.
There will be good visual detail of the molten puddle as it bonds to the base metal with the base metal being lite in color and the weld being slightly darker.

T_Bone

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Kelly C

05-30-2003 12:18:05




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ARK Welding question? in reply to T_Bone, 05-29-2003 05:48:50  
T_Bone.
I have been out playing with some scrap.
I think I figured out what I was doing wrong.
I was using 6013 5/32 rod!! I tried some 6011 1/8th and could get that to work fine vert weld.
Nice smooth bead ( for me that is)
I dont know how I ended up with 5/32 rod?
I was welding with that 6011 thinking, Wow this is nice. This stuff is much thinner than the 6013.
Then I went to look at the box..... . DOH!!!
I had to look around to make sure I was still 40 and some how didnt revert back to being 15 years old. Although if I could I would.
Kelly

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