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Do air compressor tanks grow

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Dave@NY

05-10-2003 03:58:51




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Or any other pressure vessel for that matter.Just wondering,If due to some elasticity of the metal,would a tank be larger in dimension as the pressure inside it increased? I got to thinking about this while blowing up a tire the other day.Although I realize that rubber and metal are two different materials.We cut up a tank from a small compressor that was rusted out in bottom,the metal didn't apear to be much more than about 10ga.,Seems like it would get "fatter" the more pressure it held-up to a safe limit of course!

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David - OR

05-11-2003 08:48:33




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 Re: Do air compressor tanks grow in reply to Dave@NY, 05-10-2003 03:58:51  
Steel is an elastic material, just like rubber. Within the safe working region for a pressure vessel, (the elastic region of the material), the increase in diameter is linearly related to the pressure in the tank.

Steel is both a strong and stiff material. Mild steel has a yield point (limit of the elastic region) of about 60000 pounds per square inch. The linear relationship between stress and strain is given by Young's Modulus, which for steel is about 30 Million pounds per square inch.

It would be reasonable to design a compressed air tank to have a safety factor of about 6. So for a mild steel tank at maximum working pressure, assume a maximum stress within the steel shell of the tank of 10000 PSI. (Don't confuse this with the air pressure within the tank).

(Up to about twice this max stress is plausible -- I am sure there are regulatory constraints as well as standards bodies involved).

Dividing the max working stress by Young's Modulus gives us the amount of elongation.

10000/300000 0 = .000333 (inches per inch)

For a two foot diameter tank, we get a circumference of 24 inches * PI = 75 inches

Applying the strain determined above, the circumference would grow by 0.025 inches, or about 1/32 of an inch. (The diameter grows by only 1/100 of an inch).

It would be difficult, though perhaps barely possible to measure this change.

Typical hydrostatic testing is done by loading the cylinder to 5/3 of its max working pressure, and measuring the change in volume of the cylinder, not the change in diameter or circumference. The volume change is proportional to the cube of the dimension change, making it more tractable to measure.

A one foot diameter tank (from your "small compressor"), should have a thickness of about 0.12 inches to have a max stress in the steel of 10000 PSI with 200 PSI in the tank. So your "10 guage" steel is just about right for this application.

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Skinner

05-11-2003 04:46:07




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 Re: Do air compressor tanks grow in reply to Dave@NY, 05-10-2003 03:58:51  
I'll do this from the top of my head so feel free to double check the numbers:

Thermal expansion growth:

Coef Iron 0.0000058 Steel 0.0000063

DeltaT x Distance x Coef. = Thermal Growth.

Example:
Comparing crankshaft height for an item made of cast iron from ambient temp of 70F to it's operating temp of 180 F. Mounting feet to crank centerline = 24"

DeltaT = 110
Distance = 24"
Coef = 0.0000058

110 x 24 x .0000058 = .015" growth in height between cold and hot.

We use this all the time to align couplings between two peices of machinery. Now since I'm behind a desk, I don't get a chance to use it often.

Richard Skinner

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G Taylor

05-11-2003 19:20:16




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 Re: Re: Do air compressor tanks grow in reply to Skinner, 05-11-2003 04:46:07  
I'd like to see the calculations for the 540 meg steam turbines at work. One high pressure saturated steam turbine and three low pressure turbines,cetrifical lube oil pump and the generator all in a row. And they have to allow for sag in the shafts too. How they keep the steam,oil and hydrogen seals lined up must be quit a science.



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Bud in NC

05-12-2003 06:09:20




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 Re: Re: Re: Do air compressor tanks grow in reply to G Taylor, 05-11-2003 19:20:16  
You follow a cantenary curve - (see example -shttp://www.spaceagecontrol.com/calccabl.htm)Sometimes the jack shaft between the LP turbines is the only thing that's level. Takes a lot of figuring, establishing set points in the oil bores, pulling a tight wire and setting the diaphragms, etc. Then the seals are set to the rotor. We usually set the couplings within .002" side to side, open on bottom to allow the natural cantenary curve. Keep in mind that on a nuclear unit the couplings are almost 4 feet in diameter. Sometimes it really seems closer to magic than rocket science - there's way too many sledge hammers and cutting torches involved for it to be anywhere near rocket science! If the coupling is more than a couple of thou out, the body bound bolts won't go in. I was a turbine outage planner for 14 years - turbine mechanic/welder/machinist before that.

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G Taylor

05-12-2003 20:09:29




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Do air compressor tanks grow in reply to Bud in NC, 05-12-2003 06:09:20  
Thanks, that is what I was looking for. Should see the field operators run if they get too high a delta p across a hydrogen/oil seal and roll it over.



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T_Bone

05-10-2003 23:40:50




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 Re: Do air compressor tanks grow in reply to Dave@NY, 05-10-2003 03:58:51  
Hi Dave,

Typical no, that is not enough for you measure with a tape measure. You will be able to measure the expansion from heat tho.

To put it perspective we put on a metal roofs in hot climates during the highest temperatures and in the coldest time in cold climates to allow for metal thermo expansion to keep the roofs from leaking as they expand and contract.

A typical metal roof will grow/shrink 1/4" very easy as it changes temperature.

In pressure piping or vessels, the higher the internal pressure is, the thicker the wall. This is a primarely safety factor for external damage that can cause a rupture.

Most inert gases are stable at a known temperature so it can be predicted what the pressure will be at a certian temperature and does not require a cylinder rupture disc.

Refrigerant on the other hand is not a stable gas. Refrigerant changes pressure as the temperature changes with NO upper limit, meaning the hotter the cylinder becomes the more the internal pressure is. This is why all refrigerant cylinders have a rupture disc.

A while back, the wife and I were taking at the table when we heard a loud explosion outside. We looked around and couldn't find out what it was.

About a week latter I was driving by my tri-axle flatbed trailer and noticed a tire sidewall had blown out. About a 1/3 of the sidewall was in shreads on the sun side. I've never had a tire blow out while sitting in the yard. It was the first week of hot weather, 95*F.

T_Bone

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RobertTX

05-10-2003 20:05:01




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 Re: Do air compressor tanks grow in reply to Dave@NY, 05-10-2003 03:58:51  
The "growth" is what is measured in the 10 year hydrostatic pressure test that is required of high pressure bottles - oxygen tanks, MIG gas tanks, SCUBA tanks, etc. The growth is measured when the tanks are hydrostatically presure tested and is used to estimate the condition of the tank. The tank may be condemned, downgraded pressure rated ( many acetylene bottles are old high pressure bottles ) or assigned the next hydro date at a time less than 10 years if the tank is below standard. What are the standards? Out of my league, search the web, I don't even know where to tell you to start. Maybe somebody will see this and add some info.

Back to your original question - normal shop air compressor tanks are not subject to this inspection, but yes they can grow and become dangerous due to corrosion. The high pressure bottles are different - they are affected by fatigue from the cycling of pressures.

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Fred OH

05-15-2003 08:44:50




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 Re: Re: Do air compressor tanks grow in reply to RobertTX, 05-10-2003 20:05:01  
Robert...to add a little more to your post...a oxygen cylinder is put into a large heavy sealed tank of water with a gage glass on the side of it. Then the cylinder is run up to a certain pressure...probably more than it's working load. If the column of water in the gage glass rises beyond a predetermined point (from the expansion of the cylinder)...the tank is judged from there. Don't know any more about hydrostatic testing...but that's how it was explained to me. Kinda simple when you don't know how they would test a cylinder. L8R....Fred OH

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jps

05-10-2003 12:12:33




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 Re: Do air compressor tanks grow in reply to Dave@NY, 05-10-2003 03:58:51  
If it starts to "grow" to much, run like he--! jps



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Old Peddler

05-10-2003 06:04:10




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 Re: Do air compressor tanks grow in reply to Dave@NY, 05-10-2003 03:58:51  
I think a small amount of expansion is allowed and it will return to a normal size once the pressure is released. A pressure vessel that is tested and expands but does not return to it's normal size is condemed to the scrap pile. At least that is my understanding.



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