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Brazing question for exhaust manifold repair

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ShepFL

05-06-2003 21:11:50




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I have an AC D10 II that I recently got running right. In my exhuberance I gave her a work out just to see what she could do.

What she did was spit a piece of the exhaust manifold out at me (about size of quarter). Being to cheap to buy another but not cheap enough to use quick steel, liquid steel as I am not sure they would work.

I am considering brazing. Would brazing work on the cast iron manifold if I used Silver Solder? I am thinking silver solder as it has a lower melting and flowing point (~460°F) thus in theory providing strength I need without heat distortion to cast iron manifold.

Thanks!

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mj

05-08-2003 15:35:16




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 Re: Brazing question for exhaust manifold repair in reply to ShepFL, 05-06-2003 21:11:50  
If you can get to the hole easily.....Wire brush it real good, run the engine and get the manifold hot. Shut off the tractor and cover your combustibles (gas tank, carb, wires, oil sludge, etc.) then weld (Ny-Rod) or braze, run the tractor to heat the manifold....peen the weld lightly with a ballpein hammer then shut the tractor off or go to plowin'.....:-)



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Jeff

05-07-2003 20:37:09




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 Re: Brazing question for exhaust manifold repair in reply to ShepFL, 05-06-2003 21:11:50  
W have brazed cast iron with regular brazing rods with good results at our shop with no need to use higer priced silver solder at all. The best way we have found to do this is to take the manifold off and heat it till it will sizzle spit ( technical term there...) Then weld it up with a wire welder or with an arc welder using nickel rod. Immediatly after welding it cover it with lime or sand or something that will let the entire pieeice cool down slowly. A guy we know who owns a welding shop will heat it up and weld it like that then put the piece in his stove and go to the house. Next day it has cooled off with the stove and fixed.

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Steve U.S. Alloys

05-07-2003 16:16:19




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 Re: Brazing question for exhaust manifold repair in reply to ShepFL, 05-06-2003 21:11:50  
Hello Shep,
That low temp solder won't work for your application for several reasons. You can braze it or arc weld it. If you know someone with a powder welding torch that's a great way to go. A couple of guys talked about the eutectic material. It is good stuff and it is pricey, no doubt. They were bought out by Messer after the Tafa acquisition broke the company. I've got some very good electrodes as well. Pricey also. If you need some input regarding the procedure for whatever repair method you choose, I'd be happy to help out.
Steve

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G Taylor

05-07-2003 08:41:35




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 Re: Brazing question for exhaust manifold repair in reply to ShepFL, 05-06-2003 21:11:50  
Due to age, thermal cycling, corrosion from exhaust by products. The cast gets thin and rotten. Some small foundries will custom cast items for a "reasonable price. Otherwise a new manifold if available will be less time,money and aggravation in the long run .



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T_Bone

05-07-2003 14:52:15




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 Re: Re: Brazing question for exhaust manifold repair in reply to G Taylor, 05-07-2003 08:41:35  
Hi Shep,

You can get silver solder in several different mixes. As the silver content increases so does the heat required for melting point. I like Harris 15% silver mix that has a 1800*f melt point. I do not like there cheap non-silver brazing rod.

For a 460*f melt point theres only trace amounts of silver if any.

I would mount the manifold on a jig for welding then when cooled unbolt.

I'm with GTaylor as I think your chasing a never ending problem with this manifold.

T_Bone

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oldsalty

05-07-2003 07:38:41




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 Re: Brazing question for exhaust manifold repair in reply to ShepFL, 05-06-2003 21:11:50  
My father in law who happens to be a cracker jack of a machinist repairs exhaust manifolds by heating them up in an oven then silver solder the damaged area. I hope this helps.



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Ben in KY

05-07-2003 09:15:15




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 Re: Re: Brazing question for exhaust manifold repair in reply to oldsalty, 05-07-2003 07:38:41  
Oldsalty,
Waht kind of silver solder does he use. The melting point of the silver solder mentioned in the post said something about 4 hunderd and some degree melting point. That sounds like an easy melt solder to me. The silver solder I have used seemd to have a 700 degree or so melting point. I tried standard 600 degree solder once on a briggs exhaust and it ran out like water after warming up the engine. I used a blue coated nickel/silver brazing rod ( 900 degree) and it worked fine though.
Based on my experience, if you can melt it with a standard propane torch then it will not hold up on an exhaust manifold.

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EVIELBOWEVIEL

05-07-2003 05:22:20




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 Re: Brazing question for exhaust manifold repair in reply to ShepFL, 05-06-2003 21:11:50  
go over on the tool talk and look at past posts also look for tbone and steve from "alloys"??? for advice. lots of previous posts



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evielboweviel

05-07-2003 05:28:28




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 Re: Re: Brazing question for exhaust manifold repair in reply to EVIELBOWEVIEL, 05-07-2003 05:22:20  
I need to wake up you are on the right board just go down and look. it is T_Bone not tbone who is the resident welding expert. Havn't seen Steve post for a while



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Ben in KY

05-07-2003 05:14:50




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 Re: Brazing question for exhaust manifold repair in reply to ShepFL, 05-06-2003 21:11:50  
The melting point on the silver solder might be low enough that it would melt back out from the manifold heat. Brass Brazing might work as it has a higher melting point.



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Old Peddler

05-07-2003 03:16:47




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 Re: Brazing question for exhaust manifold repair in reply to ShepFL, 05-06-2003 21:11:50  
I agree with Ken S. and you may want to ask about mig welding it with silicon bronze wire. I had an old Oliver with a broken manifold that I was going to try that with, but sold the tractor before getting a chance to see if it would work. Good Luck.



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Ken S.

05-06-2003 21:59:18




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 Re: Brazing question for exhaust manifold repair in reply to ShepFL, 05-06-2003 21:11:50  
Hey Shep, you may have problems with silver solder. It likes real clean stuff. Carbon deposits get into the pores of the cast iron and makes life miserable for brazing, BUT it can be done V ing out the work area, grinding around the work area and using a good brass flux coated rod. The best I have found was from EUTECTIC Corp. Try to find a rep or a company address. They specialize in this sort of product. Good luck, Ken

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Phil Munson

05-07-2003 07:41:24




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 Re: Re: Brazing question for exhaust manifold repair in reply to Ken S., 05-06-2003 21:59:18  
I am with Ken on this one. Eutectic stuff is very pricey, but good stuff. You might also grind it out clean and use 308-16 stainless rod. I have had great luck with it, especially with a DC welder.



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