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Need advice for making fillet welds

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Loren

05-05-2003 13:56:19




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I was having problems this weekend trying to get decent looking fillet welds. I was welding 1/4" plate to 3/4" plate, with a T-style joint, fillet weld on each side. Sometimes I would get a nice looking weld bead, and other times the bead would build up on one side of the joint only, and leave a bunch of slag between the bead and the other piece. Then it's a real pain to try to scrape the slag out of there. I'm using 7014 electrodes (stick welding,) and got about the same result whether using AC or DCRP. The current is about 180 amps I think (the power supply is a Linde heliarc with 1-10 current control, so actual amperage is kind of a guess.) The welds seem to look worse within the first 1/2". I can usually tell when the bead isn't right because I can see the slag pools forming on the sides of the weld pool. I tried different electrode heights, but that doesn't seem to make much difference. I had this same type of problem making some butt-welds on 2" square tubing a few weeks ago too. Any suggestions?

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RayP(MI)

05-07-2003 15:34:16




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 Re: need advice for making fillet welds in reply to Loren, 05-05-2003 13:56:19  
Make sure BOTH of your pieces of metal are properly grounded and CONNECTED TOGETHER. Arc will seek out piece that is grounded, and not flow to ungrounded or poorly grounded piece!



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T_Bone

05-05-2003 20:51:26




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 Re: need advice for making fillet welds in reply to Loren, 05-05-2003 13:56:19  
Hi Loren,

I agree with both previous posts. You want to make sure your base metals are clean and oil free. The 3/4" plate is going to require that 2/3 of the bead is held on that piece with letting the molten puddle swing over on the 1/4" piece.

A amperage dial is like a thermostat. It's strickly a "refference dial". What one machine says 180 amps, is 150amps on another machine or 200 on another. Your indicating cold lap when your electrode starts and is a good indication your amperage is too low or an electrode or ground problem. Check your lead connections and be sure your lead is not coiled.

With Too many amps then weld spatter will be alot. You also need to concentrate on rod angle, 0-15 degrees. Arc length should be held tight due to the heavy flux of the 7014.

Besure your watching the molten puddle and not the slag puddle. With proper weld puddle control your flux will go where it needs too.


T_Bone

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Loren

05-06-2003 07:42:14




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 Re: Re: need advice for making fillet welds in reply to T_Bone, 05-05-2003 20:51:26  
Thanks for the advice. I am using 1/8" Hobart WeldIt electrodes that are about 1 year old. I keep them in a sealed electrode container. I was getting quite a bit of spatter around the bead. Not sure if that's because of too much amperage or electrode too far away. I never thought about the leads being coiled, I'm guessing that they probably were. Will this reduce the amperage?

It got frustrating because I had the same problem when welding a frame using 2" square tubing (1/8" thick wall.) Some of the beads would stick to one piece only and be piled up, and some of them would look smooth and fairly flat. I was using 6013 1/8" for that.

I'm still getting used to stick welding with the heliarc welder, so the amperage setting is still trial & error. I don't remember having this problem this bad with our other welders on the farm. We used to buy Lincoln electrodes; are they any better? Our other welders were AC only. Since I now have DC also, should I use that mostly? Is DCRP the polarity I should be using for this? I tought myself to weld as a kid, so I never had any formal training other than reading quite a few books about welding, so I appreciate any suggestions. I'm going to start practicing more using the TIG mode on the welder, to use for sheet metal work and aluminum.

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T_Bone

05-06-2003 16:09:42




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 Re: Re: Re: need advice for making fillet welds in reply to Loren, 05-06-2003 07:42:14  
Hi Loren,

Your discribing two different problems and it's confusing. With 1/8" rod 180amps would be smoke'n and with a long arc length a molten puddle would be scattered and very unlikely would result in a bead being layed or what could be called a bead. I would look for a bad ground/electrode clamp.

Leads that are coiled create a magnetic eddy and will pull a arc all over the place and is very difficult to control. Also called arc wander or arc blow by.

Again with the 6013 it sounds like a bad ground or low amperage problem. I would take the time to take apart both your ground and electrode clamps looking for a dirty or loose connection.

I've noticed some of the newer machines are very poor rated for multi weld process by the mfg. If the mfg is saying your not going to have much luck I would think it really sucks big time for a non-rated process.

This would be caused by the type of power supply of the machine. A invertor based machine may only work well as a Tig machine and not worth a darn for stick. I would list your equipment and see if that gives us some insight.

6013 works well with AC or DCEN. DCEP would be a poor choice.

7014 works well with DCEP and ok AC with DCEN being a poor choice.

T_Bone

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Loren

05-07-2003 06:41:30




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: need advice for making fillet welds in reply to T_Bone, 05-06-2003 16:09:42  
Thanks again for the advise. I'll check the connections on the ground clamp and electrode holder, and clean it all up. My welder is a 300 amp Linde UCC-305 TIG/stick power supply. I think it was made in the mid-70's, and was a common machine for maintenance & toolroom use. I bought it from our plant about 4 years ago for $100, when our maintenance guy said it didn't work and he couldn't fix it. Turned out it was a blown fuse in the TIG torch cable, and I later found about 20 extra fuses for it at work. I think our maintenance guy just needed an excuse to buy a new MIG welder.

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jokers

05-05-2003 19:32:48




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 Re: need advice for making fillet welds in reply to Loren, 05-05-2003 13:56:19  
Hi Loren, 7014 is a high deposition rate rod, good for buildup and poor fitting pieces. I think this is part of your problem. I would use 6010, 6011, 6013, or 7018. If your rod diameter is 1/8", 180 amps seems high to me. Rule of thumb to start with for amperage is the diameter in thousandths equals amperage, ie; 1/8 = .125 = 125 amps. The suggestion to dry your rod first is good and also make sure that you have a good clean spot for your ground clamp to hook up. What I think might be your biggest problem is the angle you are holding the rod relative to the work piece. It does change according to which bead of the fillet that you are laying down. Don`t be afraid to experiment a little. Russ

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Bill 52 8n

05-05-2003 15:56:01




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 Re: need advice for making fillet welds in reply to Loren, 05-05-2003 13:56:19  
What size elctrodes are you using? If its 1/8" then 180 should be enough. Use a drag angle and try occillating the electrode in small cirlces as you move along the weld. How old are your electrodes? It is best to keep then in a moisture free enviornment when you store them. If the package has been opened long, try putting them in your oven at 250* for an hr or so before you try next time.



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mj

05-05-2003 15:07:44




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 Re: need advice for making fillet welds in reply to Loren, 05-05-2003 13:56:19  
You need more 'heat'; turn up the amps. The reason the first few inches are the worst is because the plates are still cold; the weld gets better as the bead progresses and preheats the metal. You can help this by heating the pieces a bit with a torch; also make sure that you are working the electrode enough to create an arc to both pieces, not just one of them. :-)



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KX

05-07-2003 12:09:33




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 Re: Re: need advice for making fillet welds in reply to mj, 05-05-2003 15:07:44  
turn up the amps when she is already on 180????? I weld heavy iron and I cannot remember ever having the welder turned up more than 120 amps. I would say turn it down and get the weld puddle under control. Also for cleaning out hollow spots, nothing can beat a 4 1/2 angle grinder with a heavy wire brush on it. Then when you see where your hollow places are or places where the bead did not bond to one piece, make another pass. I have found that MOST wire brushes you find in stores are not heavy enough for this but Forney makes one part number 72190 that will last pretty good. TSC used to sell these but they don't anymore in Texas....I am going to try to contact Forney directly to purchase some. I wish they still made welders....

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mj

05-07-2003 16:30:18




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 Re: Re: Re: need advice for making fillet welds in reply to KX, 05-07-2003 12:09:33  
He's running 7014, not 6011 or 6010 AND the pieces are 1/4 and 3/4 inch..... stick that with 120 amps and I'll buy you a beer! :-)



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