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Sewer Treatment Plant

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Jimlll

04-24-2003 15:10:33




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I would like to remove a septic tank and replace it with a sewer treatment plant. It will be located in NW Arkansas.

Does anyone have suggestions as to make, installation tips, etc.




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markct

04-25-2003 13:46:54




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 Re: Sewer Treatment Plant in reply to Jimlll, 04-24-2003 15:10:33  
isnt a septic basicly a small scale sewage treatment plant,my father works at a sewage treatment plant for a large mental health complex and basicly what they do is procces it simularly to a septic but on a much larger scale



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Ludwig

04-26-2003 08:20:17




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 Re: Re: Sewer Treatment Plant in reply to markct, 04-25-2003 13:46:54  
Sort of, but in a sewage plant they usually evaporate the water and then process the solids into condensed fertilizer with machines.
In your septic you do mostly the same thing, the liquids run out the leech field where they make the best grass, the solids settle were they get "processed" by bacteria which in a best case scenario excrete bits small enough to flow out through the leech field making excellent grass. When I was a kid we had a garden right on the edge of the leech field, grew great!
Of course a perfect case septic is pretty rare, because your forever putting things in that kill the bacteria, anti-bacterial soaps, bleach, cleaners, etc. Plus the perfect case tank is pretty big and so much systems are somewhat, or like my parents, very, undersized.

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G Taylor...........grey water system

04-29-2003 07:41:30




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 Re: Re: Re: Sewer Treatment Plant in reply to Ludwig, 04-26-2003 08:20:17  
We are about to close a deal on a modern rural estate with a single sewage and grey water system. I'm thinking about separating the drains from the kitchen sink,laundry,shower/tube and bath sink drain during renovations before moving in. Giving the option of easy hookup to a separate grey water system in the future. A good idea or it will gain anything ? We do use a pile of laundry,dishwasher and anti bacterial soap with three public school children and the sars scare, My parents have an older separate grey water system and a new up to code septic system. Neither have had any problems and it's 10 to 15 years between septic pump outs. Not because there were problems , just they figured it was time to do it.

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Ludwig

04-29-2003 09:07:35




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Sewer Treatment Plant in reply to G Taylor...........grey water system, 04-29-2003 07:41:30  
I'm a big fan of a grey water system for the laundry especially.
Anti-bacterial soap hurts you more than it helps, especially the kids. Seems they don't get resistant to bacteria because they haven't been exposed to it, so they're more likely to get sick when they do. Check it out, its a German study and reads like common sense.

I think I'd only go for the tub/shower and laundry out into greywater. Seems like the other sources are just way to easy to get something bad in, especially if you have kids. Check out what the grey water regs are in your area. My parents goes out through the basement drain under the road into a swampy area. Fellow from the DEP came poking around and asked about it. We showed him, figured he'd find it sooner or later. He pointed out how the cattails tend to be bigger in that area. Said the laundry detergent was good for 'em as long as it was the non-phosphate kind.
We use all bio-degradable now anyway.

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T_Bone

04-29-2003 10:09:00




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Sewer Treatment Plant in reply to Ludwig, 04-29-2003 09:07:35  
Along with the grey water comes the oxygen that the septic system needs to orperate correct. I wouldn't take all the grey water from the septic, maybe leave the sinks attached?

T_Bone



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leaching field

04-29-2003 10:33:55




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Sewer Treatment Plant in reply to T_Bone, 04-29-2003 10:09:00  
Sort of on subject - I recently observed a fella run a perforated hose into a leaching field and with a small pump. Send air into a failed leaching field and bring it back to good health in a few weeks. Gave enough life back to the good bacteria to allow it to reopen the leaching paths.

Pretty common to plant cottontails over a leaching area. Evapotransporation I think its called.



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G Taylor

04-29-2003 10:30:29




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Sewer Treatment Plant in reply to T_Bone, 04-29-2003 10:09:00  
I was under the impression that septic systems work with anaerobic ( no oxygen) bacteria and oxygen can be lethal to them? So shower,bath tub,laundry sink and washing machine to grey water? Dishwasher, kitchen and bath sinks to septic? Have mixed feelings about bacteria resistance. We don't have typhoid, diphtheria and cholera, internal parasites from sewage contaminanation of drinking water which killed plenty years ago. Do see plenty of people use the crapper at work and never wash before grabbing the door handle..... .....

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leaching fields

04-29-2003 10:48:04




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Sewer Treatment Plant in reply to G Taylor, 04-29-2003 10:30:29  
I have not thought about this for a long time but what happens in the septic tank versus the leaching field is a little different. I know the temperature in septic tank can be over 100 degrees F and void of oxygen - what happens in the leaching field is a similar but different process with a biomat growing over time that basically clogs leaching paths. Introducing oxygen to the leaching area I guess results in the biomat being consumed by an aerobic ???? reopening failed leaching paths (leaching paths = porosity of soil).

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Ludwig

04-25-2003 07:51:42




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 Re: Sewer Treatment Plant in reply to Jimlll, 04-24-2003 15:10:33  
No suggestions, but a question. Why?
Seems like its alot of work for little return. A properly sized septic is pretty simple. Pump it out occasionally, very occasionally for a properly sized one with a good leech field.
Sewer plant you gotta run and maintain. Plus running it costs money.



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Ben in KY

04-25-2003 12:36:21




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 Re: Re: Sewer Treatment Plant in reply to Ludwig, 04-25-2003 07:51:42  
Yes A properly sized and installed septic system might never need pumping. Especially if you use some of the additives like RID-X regularly. Most seem to go at least about 20 years or so at least without pumping.



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paul

04-27-2003 08:18:59




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 Re: Re: Re: Sewer Treatment Plant in reply to Ben in KY, 04-25-2003 12:36:21  
Those additives are a hoax - a properly operating septic doesn't need them, the bacteria are already in there working, no need to add more.

Waste of money.

The tank needs to be pumped every now & then to remove the solids & ash that do not get eaten by bacteria. It all depends on how big the tank, how much use, how careful the owners are about putting junk down the drain, etc. Most systems are sort of sized for a 5 year pumping, but very many variables.

People are headed for a train wreck who say they never need to pump their septic. Some need to every year, some can go 20 years - but they _all_ need to be pumped at intervals.

--->Paul

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Nolan

04-28-2003 03:54:12




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Sewer Treatment Plant in reply to paul, 04-27-2003 08:18:59  
I don't know Paul. Used to do a lot of aquariums and such, as well as my wife is an aquaculturalist. If you attempt to go with a purely mechanical filtration system to tend to have dead fish. Use a biosystem, typically started with rid-x, and you have a stable healthy system.



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Ray,IN

04-25-2003 20:39:28




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 Re: Re: Re: Sewer Treatment Plant in reply to Ben in KY, 04-25-2003 12:36:21  
As a Indiana licensed class A operator, I can tell you to operate even a privately owned treatment plant you must be licensed by your state and subject to annual inspections. There are several stages of obtaining a permit to build and operate a treatment plant, each with its own requirements and costs. A septic tank is much much cheaper to build and maintain even if you are required to have permits for it. I would install a holding tank if required and have it pumped out frequently before I would even consider installing a treatment plant. Even the lagoon style settling basins are expensive to build, then you have the problem of an open body of water to protect(by law). I estimate the installed cost of a small package treatment plant around $30,000+permiting fees, and remenber the EPA is the issuing authority delegated to the states.

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T_Bone

04-27-2003 16:56:26




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Sewer Treatment Plant in reply to Ray,IN, 04-25-2003 20:39:28  
Hi Ben,

I also believe additives are not required for Septic use. I've had mine in for 15yrs now and the only problem is the Daughter washed down some grease that pluged at the entry pipe. While in there I looked at the sludge build up and it was only about 4" deep.

What I have found for boondock camping is 1/4 cup of vinegar per 25gal disolves all the paper and solids in about 24hrs depending on the temperature. I don't use any holding tank chemicals. Depending on the ambiment temps I may have to use another 1/4 cup to keep the odor down before I'm ready to dump.

I've been using this method for the past 11yrs camping 6mths/yr and it works very well.

T_Bone

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Ludwig

04-27-2003 18:57:36




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Sewer Treatment Plant in reply to T_Bone, 04-27-2003 16:56:26  
Thats in an RV?
I've got an outhouse at my camp where the uhh, "tank" is a 55 gal drum. The outhouse is fairly close to the pond so the drum is there to prevent contamination. We use a little lime and the smell isn't so bad, and eventually I plan to pull the drum and compost the "humanure" with a goodly pile of pine needles.
In the meantime if the vinegar would help that'd be nice. I suspect it'll bubble and make quite a mess with the lime though...

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T_Bone

04-27-2003 21:51:08




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Sewer Treatment Plant in reply to Ludwig, 04-27-2003 18:57:36  
Hi Ludwig,

The lime works best in your type of system as we used to use lime on the farm before the county made us quit.

I just mentioned the vinegar as it does work very well for RV use. It wouldn't work for long term use as there would be a odor problem. Forgot about using the pine needles when we bury the waste for odor control and to help with composting.


T_Bone



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Ludwig

04-28-2003 06:56:33




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Sewer Treatment Plant in reply to T_Bone, 04-27-2003 21:51:08  
The plan is to compost in a method similar to that in the "Humanure Handbook" except on a delayed (55 gallon) scale.
I'll add some pine needles, grass clippings, leaves and maybe some dirt for odor control and to help the pile make heat to kill any possible bacteria or viruses that may have made it into the waste. It'll get composted for 3 years in a fairly conventional compost pile before being spread.

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T_Bone

04-28-2003 10:35:41




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Sewer Treatment Plant in reply to Ludwig, 04-28-2003 06:56:33  
Hi Ludwig,

We compost alot for our garden, about cubic yard each month. The odor comes from the pile having too much moister. When we have our balance of carbon, oxygen, nitrogen, and water correct, there's very little if any odor.

I enclosed a website that has some great compost info. The FAQ section has alot of good info thats worth reading. The compost gru, Captian Compost, writes alot of published articles. I've tried a few of his suggestions and so far I'm pleased with the results.

T_Bone

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