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Shop Ideas

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David Bean

04-18-2003 13:27:57




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Hi all,

I'm thinking about building a shop out back to support my growing tractor restoration habit. I'd also like to do some metalworking, and I may need some space to let my wife do woodworking. (Believe it or not, the way to her heart is with power tools...I'm getting her a router table for mother's day...she'll love it.)

I'd like to solicite your ideas on what you'd like to see in a shop if you were in my position. I'm just in the dreaming stage right now, so I'm not throwing out any ideas yet based on cost or other connections to reality. An an example, here's what I'm thinking about:

1. At least two 220 power outlets...one for a welder, one for a compressor.
2. A painted floor...to make cleanup easier and to reflect light.
3. Piped air lines around the shop for easy tool hookup.
4. An external air line for sand blasting out back.

I've been working on a couple of Farmalls either out in the yard, in a rented storage shed, or in the kitchen, so just about any shop will be a welcome upgrade, but I'm really interested in hearing what people who have had a shop would like to see if they did it all over again.

Any and all comments are appreciated. Thanks!

- David

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john

04-23-2003 17:34:02




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 Re: Shop Ideas in reply to David Bean, 04-18-2003 13:27:57  
dave ,

here's a link with a bunch of ideas

john

http://yarchive.net/car/garage.html



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Scott Williams

04-21-2003 07:58:27




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 Re: Shop Ideas in reply to David Bean, 04-18-2003 13:27:57  
I love all of the ideas I have read here, but there is one that no-one hit on yet.

I dropped a 110v cord down on each side of my workbenches. Works wonderful for both woodworking and metalworking. Also keeps me from cutting up the cords most of the time. Just remember to put them up high enough to keep from hitting you in the forehead, but not too high for most people to reach.



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Tim

04-20-2003 16:10:55




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 Re: Shop Ideas in reply to David Bean, 04-18-2003 13:27:57  
How do I save and print all these posts? I'm not going to be able to start my shop for a while yet but I sure want to have these ideas when I get serious about planning.
Thanks, Tim



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Rod (NH)

04-20-2003 19:28:24




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 Re: Re: Shop Ideas in reply to Tim, 04-20-2003 16:10:55  
Hi Tim,

Click on the little "+" sign at the top of this thread. That will open up all the responses on one web page. For MSIE at least, go to "file" and then "save as". You then select "web page, HTML only" in the drop down list box. Give the file a name and click "save" to save the file to your hard drive. You can then go back to that file whenever you want and read, print or whatever.

third party image Rod

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Slowpoke

04-21-2003 00:08:09




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 Re: Re: Re: Shop Ideas in reply to Rod (NH), 04-20-2003 19:28:24  
I tried that method but it will not allow my system to retrive a file without typing file name in the file name box after I open the file list. My method is to highlight the info and then copy and paste to a new file. Then when I select from the file list, it appears in the file name box. More work at first, less later. It's probably my (low cost)computer.



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Jeff

04-20-2003 15:08:08




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 Re: Shop Ideas in reply to David Bean, 04-18-2003 13:27:57  
If you are going to do metalworking, you'll need
more than a couple of 220v outlets.

I ran 220 across every wall, with 2 outlets per wall for welders, etc, and 2 junction boxes
per wall in between to tap into if ever needed.

tons of lights (30x32 shop with 18 dual bulb
2ft flourescents).

120v outlets across walls, and ceiling.

Heavily insulated, and forced air heat
w/dehumidifier.(propane exchange heater).

I also ran addition wire for 3 phase power.

2 air hose outlets per wall.

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Gary-Mississippi

04-20-2003 12:29:54




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 Re: Shop Ideas in reply to David Bean, 04-18-2003 13:27:57  
I built my 34 X 70 shop 25 years ago when my son was 12. He and I built it together. I built it identical to a friends shop so that my son could see rather than imagine how everything went together. Then, I took his reccomendations along with alot of other people's advice. I put my main door on the south, In the winter, the sun shines 20 feet inside the door. In the sunmmer it doesn't shine in at all. My other door is on the north, BUT, it is insulated and has overcenter latches so, that when it is closed and the door is pulled up tight, it is like a wall rather than a leaky door that lets wind in. This is a lifesaver in the summer. I have five reinforced pull hooks in the floor, one at each corner of the overhead crane and one in the center about middleways so that I cantie something down, put the floor jack under it and straighten it. This one probably needed to be in the apron out front, possibly along with a couple more. I INSISTED my neighbor put pullhooks in his apron. He did put one in and wished he had put at least one more in.In thje first hsop Iever worked in, Everything, air compressor, cabinets, etc., was raised six inches off the floor. EverySaturday the floor got at least a hosing down, usually a scrubbing. Then a sqeegee job to the floor drain down through the shop. After that, the boss bought everybody a coke (big spender, a nickle at that time) and we listened to him and the shop chief tell war stories while it dried. I've always wished I had done that withmine.

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Dan in Ore

04-19-2003 23:23:25




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 Re: Shop Ideas in reply to David Bean, 04-18-2003 13:27:57  
One more thing to consider (as if you don't have enough already) and I have kicked myself for this one. You might consider wiring the shop to handle 3-phase 220V. I got a really good deal on a 16 x 60 South Bend lathe and was not wired for 3-phase. It would cost me about $3000 to put it in now compared to under $100 when I built the shop. I am now running on a phase converter and it leaves much to be desired. I will eventually set up a rolling converter, but it will still not be like having 3-phase piped right in.

just my 2 cents worth.

Dan

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TimC

04-21-2003 13:04:05




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 Re: Re: Shop Ideas in reply to Dan in Ore, 04-19-2003 23:23:25  
You could use the converter to start a 10 horse 3ph motor then wire the 3rd leg to an aux panel. Then pull new power to the lathe. Just don't run 115v equipment off the 3rd leg.



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luckydog

04-19-2003 20:25:49




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 Re: Shop Ideas in reply to David Bean, 04-18-2003 13:27:57  
Alot of good ideas. DON"T forget to put in a floor drain!! luckydog



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David Bean

04-19-2003 19:52:54




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 Re: Shop Ideas in reply to David Bean, 04-18-2003 13:27:57  
Great stuff gents!

Thanks for the posts -- they're all going into the planning book.

- David



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Fred Kobs

04-19-2003 13:05:16




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 Re: Shop Ideas in reply to David Bean, 04-18-2003 13:27:57  
If you are more organized than I am, I would figger out where your bench, and shop equip. are going to be and use box tubing mounts for grinder,vise,chopsaw, etc.in the crete.That way you can move your equip. around the shop w/a pull of the pin.Also always thought a mount straight in the door ath the back wall for a winch of some sort for pulling the dead ones in w/o help would be handy.



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Fred Kobs

04-19-2003 13:09:14




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 Re: Re: Shop Ideas in reply to Fred Kobs, 04-19-2003 13:05:16  
forgot to add I have been dreaming of water in my shop for 20 yrs. If at all feasible I would plumb it up during construction.



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PD

04-19-2003 07:35:21




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 Re: Shop Ideas in reply to David Bean, 04-18-2003 13:27:57  
I, too, am planning to build a shop. Mine will be 40 X 60, hip-roofed, wood frame construction, with 16' ceilings. I plan to divide it in half, with half of it to store my rather large cars, and half to work in. Over the car part, I am going to make it two story. Then I will add a second story over half the work area. I am going to leave a 16 foot ceiling over half the work area to facilitate the installation of a lift. Under the part of the work area that is two story, I will put my office and a utility room for air compressors, bead blast cabinet, and hot water parts washer, which I already have. I am going to use that new (?) fancy concrete that has a urethane compound, with the color in the concrete. Floor paint or coating compounds wear off, jack stands damage it, and tires scrubbing around cause it to lift. With solid color, and urethane to seal the floor, staining and lifting the paint will not be a concern. I am going to put the building on a 4'concrete stem wall, so that I can use my pressure washer to clean up any mess I make. The suggestions about electrical outlets and air plumbing are good ones, and I plan to have 200 amp service with double plugs every four feet, and adequate flourescent lighting with flood lighting over benches, with at least two 220 circuits. I am going to insulate the insulation if necessary. I need to remove humidity for the cars and tools, and to make working more comfortable. This shop will be in southwestern Missouri, on the Lake of the Ozarks, so humidity is a major concern. I plan on installing at least five tons of refrigeration with a gas pack for heat. I have a wood stove that I will use, both for atmosphere and heat. I have a portable dehumidifier, so I may need it too. The upstairs is the biggest deal in a shop, IMHO. All the "can't do without it/may need it some day" stuff that we all have tends to collect on the floor and impede safe and convenient work. I have three old Buicks, lawn equipment, old radios, along with parts for all that stuff. So any clutter we can eliminate from the shop will be a plus. The idea of a central beam for a hoist is one that I had not considered. Sounds like a good idea. Sorry for the long post. Thanks for the ideas. Regards..... P

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cannonball

04-19-2003 07:20:25




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 Re: Shop Ideas in reply to David Bean, 04-18-2003 13:27:57  
think about making your welding area a room seperate from other. welding and mechanical work does not mix, grinding dust is bad on engines and also will burn through paint..have nice day may god bless



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dave

04-19-2003 06:07:28




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 Re: Shop Ideas in reply to David Bean, 04-18-2003 13:27:57  
Don't forget the office with plenty of shelf space for your antique mags and tech manuals. A desk to sit and pay bills and order parts by. A couch for naps and frig for the brew. Most important is the thrown. Need a place to read your mags. That's the mistake I made. Whenever I'm in my shop, right when I get my hand dirty and greasy, Ms. Jones calls. It's a long walk for me to the house's bathroom. Finaly build an outhouse next to my shop.
Phone lines for internet and to call the parimedic.....

Mine is 40x60 with a 20ft leantoo and one side for woodshop and a 20ft lean on the other side for the office and wife's hobby room.

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Supe 55

04-18-2003 22:46:35




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 Re: Shop Ideas in reply to David Bean, 04-18-2003 13:27:57  
Well, if you want to keep nice and cozy, I reccommend in floor heating. It is clean and if your feet are warm you feel a lot warmer. I am building a shop too and thinkin gof even going geothermal. Free heat, but big cost at first.



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oleblu

04-19-2003 20:01:31




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 Re: Re: Shop Ideas in reply to Supe 55, 04-18-2003 22:46:35  
Super 55, don't forget that geothermal will COOL also.



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Bill 52 8n

04-19-2003 16:53:24




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 Re: Re: Shop Ideas in reply to Supe 55, 04-18-2003 22:46:35  
I second the floor heating. My buddies rent out an old milking parlor to use as a shop for their quads and snowmobiles, bout 60' by 30'. They have a hot air furnace, but in the winter it can be 70* in there and your feet are freezin from the cold concrete.

Bill



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Rod (NH)

04-18-2003 18:31:46




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 Re: Shop Ideas in reply to David Bean, 04-18-2003 13:27:57  
Hi David,

I second what the others have said. I would add at least a couple 20a 220v circuits for tools like a table saw, jointer and planer. More importantly though I would consider building a steel I-beam or two into the ceiling structure. Should be strong enough support to handle at least 1/2 ton at midpoint. This would be for a trolley-mounted chain hoist. I have kicked myself many times over the years for not having done so when I built my shop. This is something that is not that easy to add in at a later time. Like you want, I have combined metalworking, woodworking, welding and automotive tools and equipment in one space. Floor space is at an extreme premium and floor cranes are out of the question without moving stuff around and outside the space altogether. That is done by necessity on occaision but is a real pain to accommodate.

Also would be nice to have a pit for working under a car or truck. I wish I had done that too but I wasn't thinking ahead much at the time. Money constraints are usually a reality though and you have to stop somewhere.

third party image Rod

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wdTom

04-18-2003 17:51:34




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 Re: Shop Ideas in reply to David Bean, 04-18-2003 13:27:57  
If you are going to heat your shop, consider insulating it well. I would say 6" walls or double studed using 2x4s. A tight well insulated shop will be a snap to heat and a pleasure to work in, in cold or heat for that matter it will reduce your climate control costs forever.



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Dusty

04-19-2003 05:44:34




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 Re: Re: Shop Ideas in reply to wdTom, 04-18-2003 17:51:34  
Pits are classed as a hazzardous area (boom). Anything electric in it must be rated Class I Division I, even hand held. Big $$$$. Do not cut corners.

Dusty



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john

04-18-2003 15:23:36




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 Re: Shop Ideas in reply to David Bean, 04-18-2003 13:27:57  
David...
first..calculate how large in your wildest imagination you think it has to be... now double that and it will be almost big enough... also when you calculate the cost do the same thing but instead of double use square...

now..

lighting is one of the most important things... flourescents are cheap but depending on climate don't give the best output in cold buildings..metal working and wood working need a lot of light to keep all your fingers attached and do good work.. plan a light over each stationary machine and at least one for every 20 sq ft of work area i.e. bench, layout table etc. I've got a mixture of 4' and 8' depending on area. My shop is only 25x25 and I have 4 8' 2bulb units and 4 4' 2 bulb and 2 4' 4 bulb units.. there is also 2 300 watt flood lights in the front area where I weld, cut etc and adjustable floods outside the shop for late afternoon evening light. can you tell I like light... don't put all of them on the same circuit... divide your circiuts by the work or area you are doing.. i.e. wood work on one , lathes and presses on one... that way you don't have to run all at once.

outlets.. mine are every 4 feet on the wall, about 4' above the floor. on all walls ! with several multi plug strips over benches. Again divide the circuits..some folks even go so far as every other one on a different circuit.. that would be convenient.. I've been in a shop where the only light was a drop light... drilling and blew a fuse and you're in the dark ...can be scary finding the fuse box..

If you plan on stationary tools...saws, planers, lathes...each ought to be on seperate circuits..
vacuum system for wood work would be a nice addition...

When you pipe for air... pipe overhead and bring your drops down the wall.. slope your main header toward one end with a drain to remove condensation. there is a really good schematic for shop plumbing in the TipTools site... the outside drop is a good idea, but put one out front also..nice to be able to blow off debris after working without dragging a hose across the shop.

I'd seriously consider heating especially if you are in the colder areas.. I'm in alabama and I'm putting in a forced air unit this summer.. gonna find a take out furnace from one of the A/C companies and install it...plan to keep the shop around 50� in the winter... keeps down the humidity and the condensation on parts and tools, plus it's easy to warm it up quick.. that brings up insulation... put in all you can afford... ceiling first and walls next if you have to do it in pieces.. I finished my walls/ceiling with 1/4 plywood and painted white... amazing how much light it added over studded walls.....

my brain is tired now... I'll think of more later and I'm sure there are some other good ideas coming...

you're doing right to plan first..it will save you time and money..

gud luck
john

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Slowpoke

04-19-2003 01:49:22




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 Re: Re: Shop Ideas in reply to john, 04-18-2003 15:23:36  
I'm building a shop (eventually) and want a pit to do some auto work. When I figured the cost of (poured) concrete and steel for the pit alone at near $800, I decided I may not need it after all. But I am working up some in-floor anchors from 4" id oil well pipe with a 1" bar welded in at 5" down to hold a length of chain. They will be spaced at 0,2',2',3',& 3', somewhere near the center of the floor. That spacing provides a choice of 2',3',4',5',6',7',8',& 10' between anchors. Maybe one or two more at right angles and 4-5 feet away. Don't skimp on electric recepticals or concrete floor thickness of less than 6".

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Ludwig

04-21-2003 14:42:09




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 Re: Re: Re: Shop Ideas in reply to Slowpoke, 04-19-2003 01:49:22  
Considering the money you'd be well advised to go with a lift. As has been said here many times pits are hard to insure, lifts are not. Besides a lift, to my way of thinking, is many times more useful than a pit, although a pit is mighty handy for an oilchange.



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