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Single phase vs. split or two phase electric motor?

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Dick

04-18-2003 07:26:38




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Can someone tell me the difference? I bought a used compressor that has two twin cylinder compressor, each powered by a three phase motor. As I don't have three phase power I would like to change motors. Thanks for all help.




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JMS/MN

04-19-2003 22:31:28




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 Re: single phase vs. split or two phase electric motor? in reply to Dick, 04-18-2003 07:26:38  
If you are on single phase power, you just have to replace the three phase motors with single phase motors of the same horsepower. The phase has no impact on the power being developed.



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shannon bone

04-19-2003 11:32:08




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 Re: single phase vs. split or two phase electric motor? in reply to Dick, 04-18-2003 07:26:38  
YOU MIGHT WANT TO USE 220V MOTOR AND TRY TO MATCH THE REQUIREMENT HP RATING TO RUN THIS COMPRESSOR... LIKE 3 PH MOTOR HAS 10 HP , THEN YOU NEED TO FIND 220V MOTOR WITH 10 HP.. IF YOU GO TOO LITTLE ON HP , IT LL BURN UP THE ELECTRIC MOTOR, THE MORE HP THE BETTER IT RUNS, BUT WATCH YOUR ELECTRIC USAGE... GOOD LUCK



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Slowpoke

04-19-2003 01:20:34




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 Re: single phase vs. split or two phase electric motor? in reply to Dick, 04-18-2003 07:26:38  
I seem to remember a double headed monster with 2 compressors and 2 large motors at a California auction not too long ago. Is that the one you bought?



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David - OR

04-18-2003 08:50:40




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 Re: single phase vs. split or two phase electric motor? in reply to Dick, 04-18-2003 07:26:38  
Three phase motors are actually simpler and better than single phase motors, because the three phase power provides a rotating field enabling the motor to start without any other circuitry. The problem is, they need three phase power, which requires a special hookup from the power company or a phase converter to synthesize three phase output from single phase input..

Single phase motors need a start winding to synthesize a lagging voltage phase, to "pull" the rotor from a dead stop. Once up to speed, the start winding is taken out of the circuit by a centrifugally activated switch.

Typically, fractional horsepower motors of this design are described as "split phase". Bigger motors are described as "capacitor start". Both designs have the start winding and centrifugal switch, but the "capacitor start" version adds a capacitor in series with the start winding. This capacitor improves the starting torque and reduces the starting current, but costs a little more than the simpler "split phase" design.

For an air compressor of decent capability, you are looking at multi-horsepower motors which will be described as "capacitor start" or maybe "split phase capacitor start". The practical economic limit of such motors is about 7.5 horsepower. Make sure they are designed for belt drive. These will cost $350 or more, and use 30 amps at 240 volts at 7.5 horsepower.

There's no such thing as a "two phase" motor. The 240 volts sent to your house is a single phase with a center tapped transformer. When connecting 120 volt loads, people talk about "Phase A" vs. "Phase B", but this is really only relative to the center tapped neutral. Connected at 240 volts, your motor doesn't use the neutral, and is driven from the 240 volt single phase.

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Jim WI

04-18-2003 10:54:38




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 Re: Re: single phase vs. split or two phase electric motor? in reply to David - OR, 04-18-2003 08:50:40  
You were doing fine right up until you said "There's no such thing as a 'two phase' motor." (every thing else you said is true and this one's pretty obscure)

There really were two-phase induction motors that were fed two-phase power. Phase B was shifted 90 degrees from Phase A.

Power for these archaic motors was still available in Philadelphia as late as 2001. The local electric utility even had a web page on the subject (seems to be gone now -- at least I couldn't find it through search engines).

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G Taylor

04-19-2003 07:47:36




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 Re: Re: Re: single phase vs. split or two phase electric motor? in reply to Jim WI, 04-18-2003 10:54:38  
There are a few northern mines and saw mills that use the four hot wire system. Heard it called both two and four phase. Tinkering with a couple of extra transformers wye/delta will shift three phase into true four phase.



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Farmer Tom

04-18-2003 13:47:36




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 Re: Re: Re: single phase vs. split or two phase electric motor? in reply to Jim WI, 04-18-2003 10:54:38  
Yep, you are right! The 2002 National Electrical Code (NEC) still recognizes them in Article 430! --"NEC Table 430-149 Full-Load Current, Two-Phase Alternating-Current Motors (4-Wire)." Have to agree, don't see many of them around any more tho'!


1



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T_Bone

04-20-2003 03:32:20




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: single phase vs. split or two phase electric motor? in reply to Farmer Tom, 04-18-2003 13:47:36  
You can also use a potential relay to drop out start windings. Very common on refrigeration equipment.

Arizona uses a "single pole" polyphase transformer for 230v service for about the past 10yrs or so. Although not a new design, they found they could increase existing line usage by adding a ground back too the generator.

That sure turns a few sparky heads when they see that.

T_Bone



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G Taylor

04-21-2003 06:59:53




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: single phase vs. split or two phase electric motor? in reply to T_Bone, 04-20-2003 03:32:20  
Do you mean using just the earth as the "neutral" return path on single phase high voltage distribution lines? Does work but tingle voltage shows up in livestock operation water bowls all the time.



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ali

10-07-2003 22:56:00




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: single phase vs. split or in reply to G Taylor, 04-21-2003 06:59:53  
technical information about " split phase motor"
I want these information for my research please send your information to me as PDF format file.



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T_Bone

04-21-2003 14:29:03




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: single phase vs. split or two phase electric motor? in reply to G Taylor, 04-21-2003 06:59:53  
Hi GTaylor,

Well had I typed my thoughts a little better???

Yes I did mean a neutral. I have limited knowledge about this "new system" as it was being installed about the time I got injured so I didn't presue all the details and the linemen I got my info from was unsure just how the system worked.

From what I know, the transformer uses a "single" line feed at approx 12,000 volts to the transformer where a standard 100:1 reduction coil is used with a earth ground. The second phase is magneticaly induced thus having a polyphase (two phase) 230v output that is installed like any typical 230v service.

Just how the neutral is used is beyond me and the linemen said all they know is they were told to run this wire at this height from the sub-station outward and the neutral is fed from the powerhouse generator. I wish I could have talked with our repair lineman as he keeps up on all the new systems.

T_Bone

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