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Cast Iron Weld

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Chuck in TX

02-03-2003 11:58:12

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Just removed the radiator in my Farmall H that I'm going through and discovered a crack in the bolster frame. The crack was on the piece between the frame. The casting is about 1/2 in thick, and the crack is 6 or seven inches long. Caused by a loader I'm sure.

I've read most of the postings on welding cast iron - most of T_Bones stuff (which I really value). As I recall they require preheat. This part is way to large for Momma's oven, and I'm wandering what the best way to fix it. Since it is a high strength area, it needs to be strong. Do you think that I would be better off brazing a patch (say 1/4" steel) on the underside, and then brazing the top side after the patch is installed?

I've stuck cast pieces together before - even attached cast I to steel - but nothing that requires this quality.

Any thoughts really welcome. Any one dealt with a cracked Bolster casting before?

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02-06-2003 18:39:26

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Re: Cast Iron Weld - Help in reply to Chuck in TX, 02-03-2003 11:58:12

Years ago I broke something cast iron,cant remember what it was, but the old guy said to bring a bushel basket of cold wood ashes with the part. He heated it,welded it with a torch and cast iron rod then put it in the ashes and covered it up. I asked him why and he said the ashes let it cool slowly. It worked.

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Chuck in TX

02-05-2003 10:02:21

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Re: Cast Iron Weld - Help in reply to Chuck in TX, 02-03-2003 11:58:12

Thanks to all. I have learned a lot. One quick question for Joe. Stupid question, but how should I do a spark test and what should I look for. After I got your post, I hit a spot on my bolster with an angle grinder and it produced a low quantity of sparks, and they were yellow almost even red in color compared to rolled steel. What would you think that indicates?

Thanks again.

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Joe Wise

02-06-2003 07:56:07

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Re: Re: Cast Iron Weld - Help in reply to Chuck in TX, 02-05-2003 10:02:21

Chuck,
What you have spark tested with few sparks and
orange color is cast iron,when you grind on steel
you get lots of sparks and a yellow color.

Joe

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MGM

02-04-2003 05:18:41

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Re: Cast Iron Weld - Help in reply to Chuck in TX, 02-03-2003 11:58:12

Check out this website
Link
Theres even a rod out there for dirty welding that requires no preheating
MGM

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william

02-03-2003 19:28:37

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Re: Cast Iron Weld - Help in reply to Chuck in TX, 02-03-2003 11:58:12

get cast to about 150 rose bud will work bevel before heating or grind the crack get 309 or better stanless tig rod easy fix

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jake

02-03-2003 22:37:17

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Re: Re: Cast Iron Weld - Help in reply to william , 02-03-2003 19:28:37

Check out www.twoguysgarage.com, show TGG1-02 covers cold welding of cast iron by an expert from Lincoln welders. At US Alloys home page they have a rod [924 alloy] which will join cast iron and steel. The rod is expensive but any nickel rod is. Good luck.

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Don-WI

02-03-2003 19:04:12

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Re: Cast Iron Weld - Help in reply to Chuck in TX, 02-03-2003 11:58:12

A few years ago I had to weld up the cast hitch on my 14' JD disk, as the top had busted off. I ground a very LARGE bevel on it from the top all the way to the bottom(about 1"wide on the top) and then layed it out and welded it with NI-CAD rods(reverse polarity). cleaned out the slag after every pass with chiuppiong hammer/ wire brush, ground every now and then. Works great and hasn't given me problems since. Don from Wisconsin

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Jerry

02-03-2003 18:14:22

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Re: Cast Iron Weld - Help in reply to Chuck in TX, 02-03-2003 11:58:12

I wouldnt weld it just get anthere one

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Paul Janke

02-03-2003 17:05:36

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Re: Cast Iron Weld - Help in reply to Chuck in TX, 02-03-2003 11:58:12

I have had good luck heating large pieces with a propane weed burner. It seems to be easier to get the whole piece uniformly warm. Welding torch is hot but very concentrated, even if using a rosebud.

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patrick moore

02-03-2003 16:12:59

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Re: Cast Iron Weld - Help in reply to Chuck in TX, 02-03-2003 11:58:12

look at www.newtechnologyproducts.net

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John A.

02-03-2003 15:20:33

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Re: Cast Iron Weld - Help in reply to Chuck in TX, 02-03-2003 11:58:12

Chuck, I would consider changeing out the frount bolster! I don't have any problem with welding it but since you ar going through the ol'girl, it would be a easy changeout while the engine is out . Also you are probably close enough to some of the best salavage yards in the country. If you are intrested I can give you names and #s . But if you are going to weld , It will be difficult to determine how deep the crack is, how much to grind out then trying to weld it up.
My Ag teacher whose welding program is the same as the one taught at Tarleton State University @ Stephenville, Tx. taught us to weld 1 in. then peen (light tappingwith a hammer) it till cold. Then weld another inch peen till cold, etc.,etc.I am here in central Texas would be glad to visit if need be.
Good Luck,
John A.

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Jim no longer in UK

02-03-2003 14:29:32

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Re: Cast Iron Weld - Help in reply to Chuck in TX, 02-03-2003 11:58:12

I'd go with Dave's advice and use the nickel rod. Be sure to grind a bevel into the area that you plan to weld. Also would suggest that you tack on both ends and in the middle. Weld about an inch and let it cool. Have done this with cast iron parts and even some engine blocks. All of the jobs with successful results.

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Tom

02-03-2003 14:21:59

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Re: Cast Iron Weld - Help in reply to Chuck in TX, 02-03-2003 11:58:12

For the high strength requirments of this area, and since if you butch it a replacement part might be impossible, I would recommend that you take it to a professional machine shop for welding. Just my thoughts. Good luck.

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david

02-03-2003 13:05:37

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Re: Cast Iron Weld - Help in reply to Chuck in TX, 02-03-2003 11:58:12

Cast can be welded without preheating the entire casting by using the proper rods. Really nice if you can preheat the weld area with oxy-acetylene flame (dull red). Use either a pure nickle/manganese rod or a stainless steel rod. Not cheap, been paying $3.00 per rod for stainless and $2.00 for nickle/mn.

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Andy

02-03-2003 14:55:23

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Re: Re: Cast Iron Weld - Help in reply to david, 02-03-2003 13:05:37

I'm guessing the front end cast must be somewhat maluable. I did a similer casting and used temperature sticks (I think 400 and 450 degrees) and nickle rods. I preheated it to 400 until the 400 degree stick melted and welded an inch or two and checked it with the 450. It melted so I waited until it wouldn't and the 400 still did and welded another inch or so,(and so on and so on). When I was done I wrapped it in some fiberglass insulation and set it out side to cool slow. It turned out great and has held. The nickle rods seem to like a longer arc and don't weave wide beads and they pull more when the cool and are more prone to crack. run a series of narrow beads with good cleanup between each pass. Andy

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Chester

02-03-2003 16:22:18

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Re: Re: Re: Cast Iron Weld - Help in reply to Andy, 02-03-2003 14:55:23

Also look at www.twoguysgarage.com and find show # TGG1-02 in the PREVIOUS SHOWS section. It was devoted to cold CI welding with help from a LINCOLN ELEC. pro.

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Joe Wise

02-04-2003 07:50:54

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Cast Iron Weld - Help in reply to Chester, 02-03-2003 16:22:18

Gentlemen,

I have been welding for a living for 40 years and
can help you out.

1) NEVER,did I say NEVER,use stainless steel on cast iron as the high carbon in cast iron will
dissolve in the iron and chrome in a stainless
deposit and give a high hardness deposit that
will crack,use a high nickel electrode because
nickel is not affected by carbon,that is why it
is used.

2) Do a spark test, some times a casting is cast steel not cast iron and can be welded by normal methods.Grind on a known piece of steel or cast iron to see the sparks.

3) Weld very hot up to 700F or cold as the previous post said.E-mail me for more info.

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Tim B

02-05-2003 09:36:38

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Cast Iron Weld - Help in reply to Joe Wise, 02-04-2003 07:50:54

Question for Joe and George md,

I also have a cracked (broken) front axle support for my ford. Just by looking at the piece, I'm pretty sure it is cast steel, not cast iron. If so, this can be welded without any pre-heating, special rod and such?

I had an experience welding cast steel to rolled steel once, and the weld kept cracking as soon as it cooled. Only way I got it to work was to pre-heat the steel. This was hardend cast steel though.

Any thoughts would be apprcieated.

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george md

02-06-2003 00:27:14

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Cast Iron Weld - Help in reply to Tim B, 02-05-2003 09:36:38

Tim , If you are sure that is cast steel , go to it with 7018 , should do well . If it is cast iron , do it with acetylene cast iron , it will be a stronger weld because it doesn't create the internal stress that arc weld does during cooling .

george

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Joe Wise

02-05-2003 09:50:39

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Cast Iron Weld - Help in reply to Tim B, 02-05-2003 09:36:38

Tim,
Do a spark test to see what you have,cast steel
can be high or low carbon so pre-heat is always
a good idea.

Joe

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george md

02-04-2003 20:21:50

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Cast Iron Weld - Help in reply to Joe Wise, 02-04-2003 07:50:54

Joe , agreed , keep the stainless out .

The piece that he is repairing would best be

welded with acetylene cast iron not wleded or

brazed. I have repaired the front ends of tractors
after others have fixed it with arc weld , it is a pain to grind out all the nickel and fix it properly . using acet cast you have a material that is similiar to the base material and will contract at the same rate .

build oven esing fire brick and heat with weed burner, try to get about 900 degrees F , that will get most of the expansion out of the casting so that when it cools all parts of the casting will contract equally , thus reducing the chance of cracking . george

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Joe Wise

02-04-2003 07:49:57

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Cast Iron Weld - Help in reply to Chester, 02-03-2003 16:22:18

Gentlemen,

I have been welding for a living for 40 years and
can help you out.

2) Do a spark test, some times a casting is cast steel not cast iron and can be welded by normal methods.Grind on a known piece of steel or cast iron to see the sparks.

3) Weld very hot up to 700F or cold as the previous post said.E-mail me for more info.

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