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Willie

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Big Brother Ele

01-30-2003 08:03:35




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Our new house is almost done. The local Rural Elec. company called me to ask if I'd go along on a "deal". They put a wire on your A/C compressor and thermostat, some how it allows them to shut down your compressor and leave the fan run. They do this during the high demand time. June, July, Aug, Sept. Shut down during that four months is four times(once a month) for 7 minutes. They can not do it on wekends. It also includes your elec. water heater. We have R-23 walls and R-40 overhead so they think we will not even know its off. I get about $16 off my power bill each month during that time. I'm saving them peak demand money from the main elec. supply company and that saves me some $$. While I like to save bucks I don't care for the idea that some dude at the REC can control my thermostat whith his computer. Any of you hooked up on this type of "deal"? And if so does it work out ok?

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john d

02-01-2003 07:45:12




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 Re: Willie in reply to Big Brother Elec. Co., 01-30-2003 08:03:35  
Boone County (IN) REMC has these cut-offs on water heaters all over this area, including mine. I've never heard of any complaints.



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Vern-MI

01-31-2003 04:34:57




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 Re: Willie in reply to Big Brother Elec. Co., 01-30-2003 08:03:35  
We have it and it is called interruptable air conditioning. I would get it again without thinking twice about it. It has a small panel on the outside of the house with a green and red LED, red when shut off. Keep in mind that when servicing the A/C the power company may have shut off the supply. It has happened to me and I was scratching my head trying to figure out why there was no power.

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Jim E

01-30-2003 15:51:30




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 Re: Willie in reply to Big Brother Elec. Co., 01-30-2003 08:03:35  
I've had my water heater and central air on the same type of system and have never noticed any difference between having it and not having it for around 6 years.



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RWK in WI

01-31-2003 05:18:38




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 Re: Re: Willie in reply to Jim E, 01-30-2003 15:51:30  
We had such setup on water heaters for many years here in Wisconsin then the company ended the program and just left the controlers in place saying they would cause no problems. Now we are finding that they can shut down and not give power to the heaters. An electrician can remove them but that costs.
I have had 4 units of about 36 fail at a complex I work at . Just something to check.



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ralph

01-30-2003 18:03:58




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 Re: Re: Willie in reply to Jim E, 01-30-2003 15:51:30  
Many electric companys have simuliar programs, ours is used for heat. We put in electric storage heaters to get the special rate. They can shut them off for up to 3 hrs at a time twice a day. No problem even knowing they are turned off. Also our water heater is on the same program and with an 80 gal heater no problem unless the kids and grand kids all decide to shower right after each other. Some power companys use the demand meter and if you go into demand for a set amount of time you can find your bill increases a lot for the whole month. Many of the power companies buy their power the same way and if they run into demand their wholesale bill is also larger. By shutting off some of the usage and rotating who they shut off they can keep the cost down.

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ralph

01-30-2003 18:03:32




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 Re: Re: Willie in reply to Jim E, 01-30-2003 15:51:30  
Many electric companys have simuliar programs, ours is used for heat. We put in electric storage heaters to get the special rate. They can shut them off for up to 3 hrs at a time twice a day. No problem even knowing they are turned off. Also our water heater is on the same program and with an 80 gal heater no problem unless the kids and grand kids all decide to shower right after each other. Some power companys use the demand meter and if you go into demand for a set amount of time you can find your bill increases a lot for the whole month. Many of the power companies buy their power the same way and if they run into demand their wholesale bill is also larger. By shutting off some of the usage and rotating who they shut off they can keep the cost down.

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Chet Glenn

01-30-2003 13:06:09




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 Re: Willie in reply to Big Brother Elec. Co., 01-30-2003 08:03:35  
I had a similar deal on my AC compressor only, from OG&E in Oklahoma. It was called a peaks device and was installed directly on the outside unit. It would stop power to the compressor for around one minute every 30 minutes when the temp was above a certain point, around 90 degrees or so as I recall. If the compressor was running it just stopped and the fan kept running, if the compressor just happened to be not running then it did not matter. I never noticed the difference and got about $8.00 or so off my electric bill every month during the same months you mentioned. Hope that helps. I would be unhappy if I had to tke a cold shower though!!

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David - OR

01-30-2003 11:35:09




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 Re: Willie in reply to Big Brother Elec. Co., 01-30-2003 08:03:35  
The deal as you describe it seems like a terrible deal for the electric company. I don't see how it makes economic sense for them, considering this solely from a purchased power point of view.

A big, 5 ton capacity central air conditioner might draw 40 amps at 240 volts. A big electric water heater might draw 30 amps.

Call the total 17000 watts. Let's suppose that they must pay a usurious $1.00 per kilowatt hour for wholesale peak electricity on the spot market.

If they shut down your 70 amp load for 7 minutes, they save 17 * 7/60 = 2 kilowatt hours of electricity. That's $2.00 worth of electricity. You would have paid them ~10 cents per kwh retail rates for it anyway, so they save only $1.80 cents per shutdown.

You pay $16.00 less per month, and they get savings of only $1.80 per month? What am I (or you) missing?

(In the most abusive period of the Enron era, wholesale electricity was selling for $3.00 per kilowatt hour. Even if this situation repeats, that's $5.40 per month.)

The elec company does get to preserve precious capital dollars in not having to contract for (or generate) more peak capacity. Plus air conditioner loads have an unfavorable power factor, and a high starting current, so there are side benefits to them I've not accounted for.

But still, only 7 minutes per month for $16.00? I'd take it in a minute. Jump in the car and flip on the AC if the house is too hot. Pay for the gasoline with a small part of your savings.

Are you sure its not 7 minutes per day? Or maybe 4 times 7 minutes per day?

I wouldn't worry too much about big brother. If the electric company can't keep up, they can shed the load more crudley by creating rolling blackouts using that same computer. Your thermostat is still being controlled by them.

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Errin OH

01-30-2003 09:21:48




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 Re: Willie in reply to Big Brother Elec. Co., 01-30-2003 08:03:35  
Read the fine print. I rented a house for 6 years that had that setup on the hot water tank. Free tank and install if you give permission to shut it down when needed, deals. Well the onwer signed up and at least once a week I was takin a cold shower. I could over ride with the press of a switch but 60 gals doesn't heat up very fast. One would think the demand would be when most people are home (5-7pm). Although your wide awake when done, it sure sucks taken a cold shower 5:30am.

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