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Brass vs steel

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CNKS

12-30-2002 07:23:19




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O-ring has worn a groove on the shaft on the hydraulic pump on my Farmall C, allowing hyd fluid to leak into the crankcase. Machine shop says they can fill with brass and turn down to the proper diameter. I agreed to let them do this, but am wondering how long the repair will last in comparison to the original shaft. There is not enough clearance between the shaft and housing for a speedy sleeve. Tractor will see very little use, only a few hours per year, but I would still like to have a lasting repair.

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Neal in NM

01-03-2003 23:15:05




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 Re: Brass vs steel in reply to CNKS, 12-30-2002 07:23:19  
Is it an o ring or a shaft seal? I have turned down the diameter of worn shafts to match a slightly smaller seal. No heat or welding just have to find the right seal or o ring. Neal



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Gene Davis

12-31-2002 00:56:56




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 Re: Brass vs steel in reply to CNKS, 12-30-2002 07:23:19  
Disregard my last post, some how I missed the info that there was not enough room for speedi-sleeve repair. Sorry about the overlooked info. Gene



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Gene Davis

12-31-2002 00:54:21




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 Re: Brass vs steel in reply to CNKS, 12-30-2002 07:23:19  
You might look at the repair process called a speedi-sleeve. this is a repair process for worn sealing surfaces on shafts, check with a bearing supply house, it requires no welding, or heating. Some automotive supply houses sell the speedi-sleeve kits. It is a finely polished sleeve a few thousandths of an inch thick that is slid on the shaft with a sealer and gives the shaft a new wear surface. Sometimes a seal can be shimmed out or in a little ways to give a new running surface. Just my opinion, not a sales pitch or anything, just results of good service from the abouve in my experiences. Gene

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Wayne

12-31-2002 00:05:39




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 Re: Brass vs steel in reply to CNKS, 12-30-2002 07:23:19  
First if you try to use brass for a wear surface, it won't last very long at all, I've seen it tried. We do alot of buildup work on larger shafts used in the old air and mechanically operated friction cranes but a smaller shaft would follow the same principles. What I'd suggest is to have the machine shop turn the area down a few thousands and then have the area built back up, that way when it's machined back to size you are't right back at the root of the weld. Rather you'll have a few thousands of buildup so you know you'll get a good finished surface, and not a single thin ribbon of weld laying in the origional wear groove. If you have any machine shops in your area that do engine work, many of them will have a buildup machine that uses a sumerged arc wire feed setup for building up crank journals, cams, etc. Most I've seen use a very fine wire for this type of work so heat input into the piece is minimal, and if they use the right alloy wire for the shaft material, when it's machined back it should be as good or better than new.

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CNKS

12-31-2002 08:43:03




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 Re: Re: Brass vs steel in reply to Wayne, 12-31-2002 00:05:39  
Wayne, Steve, Gene,and Mac -- I appreciate all your comments. Main concerns of the machine shops I consulted was heat, ultimately resulting in shaft breakage. Since the pump drives off the cam gear, I would have major engine damage if it broke. Steve, found a shop that could use some of the procedures that you mentioned. He did not have the proper cutting tool (don't fully understand what he meant), but was willing to order it. After discussing all this, we decided to enlarge the hole in the housing to allow room for a speedy sleeve. Maybe not absolutely permanent, but in common use in many applications. As little as I use the tractor it will probably outlast me, if not it is replaceable. I'm going to save this discussion for future reference. Thanks to all of you.

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Steve U.S. Alloys

12-30-2002 15:42:38




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 Re: Brass vs steel in reply to CNKS, 12-30-2002 07:23:19  
The process that Mac has referred to would be one solution to your problem. It is basically a brazing process but the deposit will be nickel based as opposed to a copper based brazing material. The best powder to ask the shop to use if you go this route, is the nickel/silicon/boron. That will be very machinable yet will have a low coefficient of friction and give long wear life.

Better yet, if you know a shop who has the capability to spray an exothermic powder, your part temp will be held to below 450°F and a nickel, aluminum, iron, powder would work very well here. They may refer to this process as cold spray or metallising. The twin wire arc process would be better still. Part temp would be held to below 200°F and bond strength would be higher. A #2 stainless steel or some other iron based material would be suitable for that process.
HTH,
Steve

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CNKS

12-30-2002 18:47:41




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 Re: Re: Brass vs steel in reply to Steve U.S. Alloys, 12-30-2002 15:42:38  
Thanks, I'll see what they say. Have a feeling they can't do it, or the guy would given me that option.



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Steve U.S. Alloys

12-30-2002 19:17:03




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 Re: Re: Re: Brass vs steel in reply to CNKS, 12-30-2002 18:47:41  
Probably so. I don't know what the options are for you in regard to alternatives in your area. I thought perhaps you could check the yellow pages for metallising or check the machine shop listings and view the adds.



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Mac

12-30-2002 10:41:08




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 Re: Brass vs steel in reply to CNKS, 12-30-2002 07:23:19  
Brass will hold up for a while but not like the shaft itself. Next best thing would be have it fuse coated with harder metal.



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CNKS

12-30-2002 11:45:20




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 Re: Re: Brass vs steel in reply to Mac, 12-30-2002 10:41:08  
Machine shop did not mention fuse coating. Is this similar to hard facing? Or is it a relatively new process that not many machine shops use? I have not had much machine shop work done and am not familiar with the terminology. Thanks.



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Mac

12-30-2002 13:17:37




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 Re: Re: Re: Brass vs steel in reply to CNKS, 12-30-2002 11:45:20  
I believe this is a form of hard surfacing. I have never used it but seen it done. Not 2 far from here they used to build up crank shafts on diesel Locomotive engines in a similar manner.



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CNKS

12-30-2002 14:19:13




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Brass vs steel in reply to Mac, 12-30-2002 13:17:37  
Thanks



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