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Torque wrench

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tom

12-14-2002 16:11:36




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I need a 275 ft lb torque wrench to do the heads on my tractor but I cant find one this big. Does anyone have any ideas to help out????




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Trucker

12-23-2002 19:50:36




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 Re: Torque wrench in reply to tom, 12-14-2002 16:11:36  
I think ENCO will give you a free catalog if you fill out the form on their website,and they have torque wrenches that are 3/4 drive that go that high.Head bolts need the correct torque because they have to stretch to hold tight and not blow a gasket when everything gets hot.You might be able to do it with a certain length rod welded to a socket,but you would want to be real sure you were right or it could cause the bolts to stretch too far,or pull the threads out.The best thing might be to rent one.Maybe you have a True Value hardware store around,or an auto parts store that will rent you one,or maybe you can borrow one from a truck shop,or school bus shop.

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buck

12-16-2002 09:36:34




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 Re: Torque wrench in reply to tom, 12-14-2002 16:11:36  

first let me say that I agree with the application of extensions in order to use a torque wrenceh with lower capability. In reality you could use an expension bar 2.75'long and measure 100 lbs. of force at the end with your bathroom scales or 2 times the length with 50 lb of weight.Many times I have used my body weight on a calculated length of extension to get a desired torque on a nut such an an axel nut. Back your question. Hot VW's magazine has many parts and tool advertisers. The 3/4 torque wrench is advertised by many at less that $100. This may seem odd but yes the VW had a few very large nuts that required relatively accurate high torques such as your heads.

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Jeff

12-15-2002 20:40:53




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 Re: Torque wrench in reply to tom, 12-14-2002 16:11:36  
Tom,

I would suggest you take a look at Ebay. CDI(snap on owned) and other American made 3/4 dial style torque wrenches can be had for less than $100.

Good Luck.



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ag-lad

12-15-2002 15:55:18




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 Re: Torque wrench in reply to tom, 12-14-2002 16:11:36  
Keep tightening the bolt until it strips, then back off 1/4 of a turn. Just jokin'. Have a good day.



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Dennis Benson

12-14-2002 18:13:01




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 Re: Torque wrench in reply to tom, 12-14-2002 16:11:36  
Two ideas, rent a torque wrench, or the Snap On wrench that would work is a 3/4 inch drive with no ratchet or flex head number QC4400 for $498.00, it has a maximum torque of 400 foot pounds. My Snap On price list is from November 2000 so the price is probably more.



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Rod (NH)

12-14-2002 17:35:51




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 Re: Torque wrench in reply to tom, 12-14-2002 16:11:36  
Hi Tom,

The quick answer is buy a geared torque multiplier from Snap-On. BIG $$$. Or a 3/4 drive dedicated torque wrench. Also BIG $$$. Unless you are "in the business", those actions are not practical.

If I were you, I would fabricate an extension and use a standard 150 lb-ft torque wrench which you may already have. The extension should be the same length as the torque wrench (between the midpoint of the hand grip to the square drive centerline). The extension simply extends the distance between your grip and the bolt you are trying to tighten...beyond what is available with the torque wrench alone. If that distance is now twice what it normally would be, 138 lb-ft on the torque wrench equals to 275 lb-ft on the fastener...a 2:1 increase.

You could make such an extension from a sturdy steel rod with an old socket welded on one end to accept the square drive of your torque wrench (likely 1/2"). A square drive adapter could be welded on the other end to mate with the drive of the socket that engages the head bolts.

A relatively inexpensive solution IMO.

Rod

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Short Round

12-15-2002 16:35:35




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 Re: Re: Torque wrench in reply to Rod (NH), 12-14-2002 17:35:51  
Rod, I might be missing something but I dont think that will work. The torque will be the same at the head reguardless of the length of the bar. I belive the pull will be much easier but the torque will be the same. Or like I said, "Am I missing something"? Which would not be the first time.



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Rod (NH)

12-15-2002 19:08:43




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 Re: Re: Re: Torque wrench in reply to Short Round, 12-15-2002 16:35:35  
Hi Short Round,

The torque (or twisting moment) applied to anything is determined by an applied force acting through a radial distance. Say you have a torque wrench that is one foot long from the center of the hand grip to the centerline of the square drive. That wrench will indicate a torque of 50 lb-ft when a force of fifty pounds is applied by your hand: 50 lb X 1 ft = 50 lb-ft. If that wrench were two feet long instead, that same applied 50 lb would result in an applied torque at the end of 100 lb-ft (and registered as such by the wrench).

You are correct in suggesting that for twice the length, you can achieve the same torque with half the applied force. I guess what I am trying to say is that if you apply the same force through twice the distance, you will get twice the torque at the end. In the 275 lb-ft example, the torque the wrench will see (and indicate) will be 138 lb-ft at some force applied at the handle. The torque seen by the bolt at the same time will be twice that (275 lb-ft) since it is twice the radial distance from the same applied force as the wrench square drive is. In other words, the torque that is being measured by the wrench is not the same as that being applied to the bolt.

I believe this is a correct analysis but must confess that I have never actually tried it. It's the same principle as being able to twist off a small bolt a lot easier with a long wrench than a short one.

Rod

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Ludwig

12-16-2002 05:41:22




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Torque wrench in reply to Rod (NH), 12-15-2002 19:08:43  
Umm, possible flaw, work with me here.
I have a cheapo beam type wrench, forgive me I only torque a few bolts a year.
So the way the beam works is that the beam comes out from the head of the wrench and in effect measures the deflection of the wrench handle. The thing is that everything is based on the HEAD, not the handle. So the HEAD is only able to measure up to the rating of the wrench, which in this case is like 100#. If I put a cheater on sure I'd be able to put 200# of torque to the cheater, but I wouldn't be able to measure it since the measurement comes from the head which can only go up to 100#.
I think(not positive here) that a click type would be the same or similar. It "knows" that torque is at the head and thus doubling the handle lenght will only serve to make it easier for the wrencher to achieve desired torque.

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Rod (NH)

12-16-2002 07:14:26




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Torque wrench in reply to Ludwig, 12-16-2002 05:41:22  
Hi Ludwig,

Yes, you are correct that the wrench measures torque AT THE HEAD. In the 275 lb-ft example the wrench is, indeed, measuring the torque at the head - 138 lb-ft. However, the torque applied to the bolt is NOT the same as being measured by the wrench. It is actually twice that indicated by the wrench. This is due to the fact that the distance from your hand to the bolt is twice the distance from your hand to the head of the wrench.

This would be true for all types of torque wrenches; beam style, click type or dial type. When you add such an extension, the torque being applied TO THE BOLT is NOT the same as that being measured by the wrench. The user must calculate the actual torque by the unique dimensions involved. In the example, the "cheater" was the same length as the wrench itself. That resulted in a 2:1 increase over the wrench reading. If the "cheater" was twice as long as the wrench, the torque on the bolt would be three times that being indicated (measured) by the wrench.

Skinner is correct; there can all kinds of odd shaped extensions (or adapters) to gain access to fasteners that you can't get the head of the torque wrench on. If the math is done correctly, the wrench can be used quite nicely to obtain the proper torque. The same principles apply. Check out the link for a more authoritative analysis. It is a page from one of my Snap-On torque wrench manuals (pdf file).

Rod

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Dennis Benson

12-17-2002 09:23:44




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Torque wrench in reply to Rod (NH), 12-16-2002 07:14:26  
That jogs my memory...

A shop I was working in had the same question, we asked the Snap On man, when he came in about using extensions on torque wrenches. He went into a lot of doubletalk trying to discourage us, and trying to sell us a torque wrench. I think he was talking about using crow foot wrenches at the time.

I thought Snap On had something to do with this question.



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Rod (NH)

12-17-2002 10:54:03




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Torque wrench in reply to Dennis Benson, 12-17-2002 09:23:44  
That particular Snap-On man simply didn't know what he was talking about. Or his desire to sell you something outweighed his honesty. If you can do the proper math, you can use any oddball shape extension you can come up with. The straight one that is in line with the wrench shaft is the easiest to calculate, as the example shows.



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Ludwig - okay

12-16-2002 16:57:42




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Torque wrench in reply to Rod (NH), 12-16-2002 07:14:26  
I get it now, that makes sense.
So for anybody not getting it:(and to help me work it out for myself)

The torque wrench is calibrated for the length of the handle. Change the length of the handle=change the calibration...

Cool. Something to file away in the brain for when I need it.



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Short Round

12-16-2002 13:41:04




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Torque wrench in reply to Rod (NH), 12-16-2002 07:14:26  
Rod, the more I think about this I have to admit that you are right. The extension when of equal length to the torque wrench will double the amount of torque on the bolt head, and will be twice the amount shown on the dial. You have done a good job of explaining it, thanks. Denny



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Skinner

12-16-2002 04:13:44




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Torque wrench in reply to Rod (NH), 12-15-2002 19:08:43  
Yes, it works. We have extension wrenchs at work that are require for special, hard to reach fasteners. The same theory applies to them when torqing.



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