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R-19 vs R-22 Walls

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Willie

12-13-2002 06:43:53




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Am about ready to put the pink to our new house and have a bid on the job from a company that has two ways to go. First is with the bat type that yealds a R-19 wall. The other will cost me about $475 more and is the blow-in celulose (not the wet kind) at R-22. I'm trying to figure at $475 how long will it take for that R-22 to save me on heating bills to justify the money? I'm getting R-38 in attic that is blow-in. I would guess that most of the heat loss form a house goes out the attic, not the walls. 2X6 walls on 16". I'm in the middle of the country (MO) so it's not like we are in the deep freeze but it does get cold. Good windows and Tyvek (sp). Would like you input. Thank you

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Tom

12-15-2002 17:06:59




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 Re: R-19 vs R-22 Walls in reply to Willie, 12-13-2002 06:43:53  
I think fiberglass is the best. However it has to be installed well. That is no short peices, no narrow ones, all edges stapled to the face of the studs-not the sides- to even have a chance of a vapor barrier. You may be better off doing the insulation yourself, I have seen insulation contractors come in and do a house FAST, but I am glad I did the work in mine. Another way to get a good vapor barrier is to put 6 mil poly over all surfaces cutting out for windows and doors. Consider running your wires inside in wireways, cutting swithc and outlet holes in the vapor barrier allows cold drafts. If you want to add R to the 6" walls put 1" ridgid foam on the inside before the sheetrock or paneling. This helps eliminate coldspots where the studs are. A way to get an R 22 wall is to double stud, that is build two 2x4 walls shareing the same sill and plate, one to the outside and one to the inside, stager the studs. You should slash or puncture the vapor varrier on the outside insulation, vapor barriers need to be next to the living space and you only need one. At windows or doors you use 2x8s for framing as you used for the sills and plates. I have done this on the last two additions to me home and it is the best. The women like it too, gives a wide window sill for plants etc.

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kjm

12-13-2002 20:13:38




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 Re: R-19 vs R-22 Walls in reply to Willie, 12-13-2002 06:43:53  
Willie, Wet spray on mice and bugs hate it, my contractor let it dry 3 weeks, all out side seams are calked(no lady bugs no air)I used batts in the garage, I should have sprayed it. 2x6 walls the propane tank is on 75% I filled it in March. Good luck with the new place kjm NEMO



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Slowpoke

12-13-2002 18:18:38




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 Re: R-19 vs R-22 Walls in reply to Willie, 12-13-2002 06:43:53  
I believe most codes are now requiring bats in walls to be stapled to interior face of stud. This eliminates air space behind sheetrock, and the path for fire to travel up inside the wall.



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RayP(MI)

12-13-2002 17:22:25




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 Re: R-19 vs R-22 Walls in reply to Willie, 12-13-2002 06:43:53  
Go with the best r-factor you can afford... Heating and cooling costs are bound to go up, and you'll be glad you did. It'll be paid for before you expect. Should you decide more insulation later, the cost and inconvenience of installation is going to be astronomical!



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Scooter

12-13-2002 17:07:39




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 Re: R-19 vs R-22 Walls in reply to Willie, 12-13-2002 06:43:53  
Hey check out Healthyseal.com Im a soy farmer and could get rid of a few mor beans just joking but check it out before you pink



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Ben in KY

12-13-2002 16:01:38




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 Re: R-19 vs R-22 Walls in reply to Willie, 12-13-2002 06:43:53  
I agree with several of the other posters here. Batts in the walls because of settling. It WILL happen. The foam stuff is nice but very expensive and difficult if you ever have to fish a wire in a wall. You have to cut out a trough and fill it back in to "fish in a wire ". Blown it is best for horizontal areas, as it settles it actually works better in these areas.



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ShepFL

12-13-2002 14:13:16




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 Re: R-19 vs R-22 Walls in reply to Willie, 12-13-2002 06:43:53  
third party image

I cannot discuss the merits or ROI of insulation. I can tell you for my new house in FL I did the following:

On the floors I had them place caulk on concrete, then blue sill plate foam runner, sill plate then expanding foam around sill plate. ALL exterior and interior penetrations (windows, outlets, door jambs etc.) were filled with expanding foam. ALL walls were insulated with 1/2" R8 foam board then R-19 bats. Exterior covered with "tyvek" type material, windows installed with silicone sealant as well.

Since two-story also insulated between floors using R-30 bats for insulation and sound proofing. Attic is R-38 dry blown-in insulation covered with R-25 sealed bats. All windows are also insulated. For ventilation I open a window and house "breaths" thru attic. Also installed thermostatically controlled attic fans with manual ON/OFF switch located in kitchen.

Overkill to be sure but one day I want to retire and have minimal operating costs. Heat is supplied via LP fireplace and one wood burner. SEER 16 American Std. Heatpumps for cooling. Preparations in place for geo-thermal (land appropriation, inspections) but need to save some more $$.

Once the "Carthage" is complete I can begin rebuilding tractor fund and get back to playing in the dirt!!!

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pete

12-13-2002 23:17:01




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 Re: Re: R-19 vs R-22 Walls in reply to ShepFL, 12-13-2002 14:13:16  
Nice dog.



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ShepFL

12-14-2002 10:20:43




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 Re: Re: Re: R-19 vs R-22 Walls in reply to pete, 12-13-2002 23:17:01  
grins from here :)



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Nice tractor barn!!

12-13-2002 21:47:17




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 Re: Re: R-19 vs R-22 Walls in reply to ShepFL, 12-13-2002 14:13:16  
Can't wait to see the house!
sky



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ShepFL

12-14-2002 10:22:00




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 Re: Re: Re: R-19 vs R-22 Walls in reply to Nice tractor barn!!, 12-13-2002 21:47:17  
House will have to wait until I harvest the planted pines!! Grins from FLA :)



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mj

12-13-2002 13:51:23




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 Re: R-19 vs R-22 Walls in reply to Willie, 12-13-2002 06:43:53  
I saw a piece on the TV a while back where the guy had the walls foamed by a crew using something like 'Crazy Foam' only applied by machine to the walls and trimmed by a guy coming behind. It sealed all the holes and cracks, went around the back of pipes , wires, etc. and the R factor they quoted was WAY up there. When they got finished (didn't take long) the place was ready for drywall. It was pretty impressive to watch. In the ceiling of my shop I used a plastic painters' dropcloth stapled to the bottom of the trusses (moisture barrier) followed by the sheetrock and then blew in about 18'' of celluose on the attic side; walls are 2x4 with batts as per Bucks' preference. It's easy to heat and very tight.

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buck

12-13-2002 11:34:25




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 Re: R-19 vs R-22 Walls in reply to Willie, 12-13-2002 06:43:53  

I prefer the bats because of the possibility of settling of the other type. I also like the bat facing stapled to the face of the studs in lieu of the sides. Like others have said I think that it is just as imporant to take the time to seal all possible cracks,joints,holes,etc.



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rhouston

12-13-2002 08:25:34




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 Re: R-19 vs R-22 Walls in reply to Willie, 12-13-2002 06:43:53  
on the plus side blow in is treated with borax for flame retardant (last I knew nayway) bugs aren't to fond of borax. I agree with sealing ALL perforations of the external sheathing. also seal sill to foundation joint. no matter how good they look they still leak. I wish I had been there when they set mine so I could have made them set it on a bed of caulk or something. that thin foam sheet they used didn't do the job very well. inspect the work that is done, don't let them close the walls until you're satisfied with the insulation cause you can never go back without gutting the place.

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walt

12-13-2002 07:22:27




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 Re: R-19 vs R-22 Walls in reply to Willie, 12-13-2002 06:43:53  
Cant give you a figure. But ask if they chalk all bottom/top plates. Around all windows/doors 2x4 cripples. I bought some insul-foam and sealed all drilled wiring runs on all outside walls. Vapor barrier? Not just poly. New stuff, looks like aluminum foil. Wrap all outside walls. Check with your local electric provider. Lots of times they give discounts, or price lock-ins for energy efficient homes. They call them energy-right here in Tn. The problems with the blown-in(loose) they will settle. Then you cant get back into the wall to refill without drilling holes in the drywall. If you use insul-foam around windows/doors. Be careful, the expansion of the foam will jam the windows/doors. It is a P*in the A* to remove. With todays air-tight homes, you would be surprised how much hot/cold air comes in via the electric outlets. I have 2x6 walls in my house and used batt. If I had to do over again, I would have used the wet blown. Also, would have gone with Geo-thermal heating/cooling. Expensive up front, but major savings monthly.

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