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Electrical Problem

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Crank

12-06-2002 07:32:34




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I know that this is not tool talk related, but I thought maybe someone would have an idea of whats causing my problem. A couple of nights ago the lights started doing some weird things in my house. When the furnace would start to kick in the lights would go dim, after it kicked in they would get bright. The microwave doesn't work right. Heres my setup. I have a distribution panel on the lightpole by the meter. This feeds the house, shop, well pit and a storage building. All buildings have their own seperate breaker panel. There is no problems with the power in any of the other buildings. Power is run to the back of the house in buried cables. There is a 200 amp breaker at the back of the house. From there it goes into the house into the 100 amp panel. I took my multimeter and measured the voltage at the distribution box. Each leg is reading about 125 volts for a total of 250 volts. I took a reading at the 200 amp panel at the back of the house. One leg coming into the breaker measures about 110 volts the other one reads 135 volts. I talked to my electrician and he said he thinks that the problem is in one of the buried cables that we had to splice a couple of years ago. He can't explain why the power should drop in the one cable and be gained in the other. Now my question, If that splice is bad how does the other cable draw that extra voltage? Is it possible that maybe the 200 amp breaker is bad? Sorry for the long post. Hope I've explained the problem so you can understand it. I don't look forward to start digging up cable if thats not the problem. Thanks guys!

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iceman

12-07-2002 06:36:56




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 Re: Electrical Problem in reply to Crank, 12-06-2002 07:32:34  
A friend of mine called me to fix his refrigerator,which did just as you describe. I told him to call the power provider. They found a problem with the neutral on the pole. Get it fixed!! Without a good neutral, you get 230V to all your stuff. you should get the same voltage to ground on each hot leg.(unless it's 3 phase-wild leg)



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iceman

12-07-2002 06:55:28




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 Re: Re: Electrical Problem in reply to iceman, 12-07-2002 06:36:56  
BTW they only put a certin amount of smoke in your stuff. If you let that smoke out,you cant get it back in. :)



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Jim WI

12-11-2002 10:29:17




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 Re: Re: Re: Electrical Problem in reply to iceman, 12-07-2002 06:55:28  
Sure you can! What else did you think the TV shops charge two hundred dollars for fixing on those big screen sets? Magic smoke is expensive.



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T_Bone

12-06-2002 22:40:27




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 Re: Electrical Problem in reply to Crank, 12-06-2002 07:32:34  
Hi Crank,

I would have a big problem with hiring someone who couldn't tell me or explain to me why the power surge.

A good way to find underground electrical problems is to bend 4" 90's on two 1/8" steel 36" long welding filler rods. Hold these tight in each fist facing straight out from your body. When the wires cross each other, forms an X, when your over the line, center of X is center of electrical line. You mark out where the line runs, then walk the line, when the rods don't want to cross or touch tips, then thats the bad area. If they cross in an X and it don't matter how hard to try to keep them from crossing, thats normal.

T_Bone

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TimC

12-06-2002 19:30:17




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 Re: Electrical Problem in reply to Crank, 12-06-2002 07:32:34  
If you can borrow a laser pointing temp guage it might help find the bad connection rather than using the touchy feely method. If it is in the splice thats under ground obviosly it wouldn't help there but you can exhaust all the other possibilities before you start digging. You might load it with a dryer or stove if its cold where you're living to make a poor connection heat up.

You might even borrow some welding cables and run a temp neutral cable and see if that is where its at but I wouldn't advise you to do it yourself unless you know exactly what you are doing.

Be careful.

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Farmer Tom

12-06-2002 11:53:39




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 Re: Electrical Problem in reply to Crank, 12-06-2002 07:32:34  
As a former electrician and electrical contractor and now an electrical inspector, I have to agree on the neutral being the problem. As has been said, you need to have someone check all of the neutral terminations. Have found and repaired this kind of a problem many times, especially when an aluminum conductor was involved. Most of the time the real reason was the terminal was not approved for use with the aluminum conductor and/or the AL/CU anti-oxident compound was not used. As some else said, get it fixed ASAP - things that are only supposed to have 120 volts could get 240 volts (TV,s, electronics, etc.).

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Short Round

12-06-2002 16:48:32




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 Re: Re: Electrical Problem in reply to Farmer Tom, 12-06-2002 11:53:39  
Sure sounds like your problem is in the underground splice. You have described the clasic neutral problem, an unbalance between the phases. What to do now?

1. Locate and resplice the connections

2. Or run new wire to refeed your panel.

If it were me I would run the new wire, underground splices are just a problem waiting for a place to happen. Good Luck



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Richard Fazio

12-06-2002 11:10:42




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 Re: Electrical Problem in reply to Crank, 12-06-2002 07:32:34  
I agree it's the neutral. It could be at either end of the run where it connects in to the panel. It's most likely not the run under ground. Fix it quick before you start frying your equipment. I would check connections at both ends. Sometimes you get lucky and it is very obvious when you take the cover off. Badly coroded connections will do it. Sometimes it could be just loose. Do you have aluminum wire? Aluminum has a habit of getting loose.

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Lincoln

12-06-2002 10:01:57




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 Re: Electrical Problem in reply to Crank, 12-06-2002 07:32:34  
Its a neutral wire problem. I had the neutral wire work loose from the back of the meter socket and it caused the same problems the you describe. You will start burning out light bulbs like crazy, and its hard on appliances. Mine was easy to find because my wife had backed into the pole the meter was on! Good luck.



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David - OR

12-06-2002 07:51:56




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 Re: Electrical Problem in reply to Crank, 12-06-2002 07:32:34  
It sounds like the neutral connection from the subpanel in the house back to the meter base has developed a high resistance. This is a dangerous condition and needs to be fixed ASAP.

Power to the meter comes from a center tapped transformer. There are two 125 volt legs of opposite phase sharing a common neutral (the center tap).

If the neutral feed to the house develops a high resitance, then the resulting voltage drop in the neutral wire will show as a low voltage (phase to neutral) on the more heavily loaded phase, and a high voltage (opposite phase to neutral) on the more lightly loaded phase -- since the neutral voltage will shift in the direction of the more loaded phase (away from the unloaded phase).

If the loads on each phase are perfectly balanced then the neutral currents will cancel out, and both voltages will be the same, even if the neutral has a high resistance. The neutral acts to carry the unbalanced current, or fails to do so, as seems likely in your case.

One real danger comes in the fact that one phase can eventually see a very high phase-to-neutral voltage, as much as the full 250 volts. Imagine what this does to items plugged into that phase.
Lights that momentarily get really, really bright is a classic symtom of this condition.

Another danger is a function of how the equipment bonding/grounding was done. If the neutral is bonded to the metal box, and the ground rod quality is marginal, then your supposedly grounded metal boxes are ELECTRICALLY LIVE.

The fact that the feed cable was spliced is entirely consistent with this -- and the likely cause.

Get it fixed right away!!

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Bob

12-06-2002 07:44:39




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 Re: Electrical Problem in reply to Crank, 12-06-2002 07:32:34  
You have a problem in your neutral wire. This causes the high voltage reading on one 120 Volt leg, and the low voltage reading on the other when various combinations of 120 volt loads are in operation. The neutral wire may be broken underground, or there may be a faulty connection at one of the neutral blocks in your meter base, breaker box, or other connection or splice in your neutrsal wire.



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