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Big Farmers

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what do you thi

11-04-2002 04:14:29

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Here in central Il. We have a farmer who farms 50,000 acers.They pay over 200$ cash rent on some of it.they can get ground by the 1000s each year.Last year they ran 11 9650sts 12 row heads.I think there should be a way to stop this.We have young people in the area who wants to farm but can't.Land lords need to view the bottom line instead the top(cash).I farm next to these people have not seen any fertilizer put on that farm for 5 years.I just wish people would wake up. J.D lost out on 50+ combine sales in my eyes.Well thats all i got to say.

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Don't know much about farming but...(dave in oh)

11-09-2002 15:49:29

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Re: Big Farmers in reply to what do you think, 11-04-2002 04:14:29

check out www.newfarm.org. This is the way I'd like to do it.

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grow smart

11-08-2002 07:57:50

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Re: Big Farmers in reply to what do you think, 11-04-2002 04:14:29

Smaller farms can do just fine if they diversify. You cannot compete growing the same thing. Grow organic, grow the unusal, be different. Also consider different markets. It can be done on a whole lot less acreage. You have to think, work hard and grow smart. I agree that you will lose if you want to grow grain, have a bunch of expensive machinery and a lot of debt.

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Little farmers, too!

11-07-2002 03:14:19

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Re: Big Farmers in reply to what do you think, 11-04-2002 04:14:29

Younger brother got the home farm in 1998 from parents for pennies on the dollar. He immediately expelled all older siblings. Last week the cows were sold at auction, reason given; too much work for one person! GO FIGURE! The family had milked Holsteins on the farm for almost a century. Glad I'm on a different farm now.

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less than mister big

11-05-2002 14:25:05

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Re: Big Farmers in reply to what do you think, 11-04-2002 04:14:29

good committ Phil. But what do you do when this farmer is puting this farm land in other names to get the payment(employes,uncles,etc)

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Phil Munson

11-06-2002 11:20:07

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Re: Re: Big Farmers in reply to less than mister big, 11-05-2002 14:25:05

This excess greed is referred to, in the Code of Federal Regulations (CFR)Title 7, as fraudulent scheme and device. Exposing this to bureaucrats, especially ones who help perpetrate it, is a waste of time; it doen't interfere with their leisure! However, the newspapers, can, and often do, raise more "hell" over this type of greed and waste than a vigilanty mob. Frankly, since it is public money, it would suit me fine if everyone receiving any of this money had their names, and full acconting of amounts, PUBLISHED in the newspapers.

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Glenn(WV)

11-05-2002 07:20:11

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Re: Big Farmers in reply to what do you think, 11-04-2002 04:14:29

The only thing I can say is that's the free enterprise system. Give me free enterprise any day. Remember the farming collectives in the old Soviet Union? They had more acreage in crops than anyone, yet they still had to buy U.S. grain to feed their people ...

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Phil Munson

11-05-2002 11:25:12

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Re: Re: Big Farmers in reply to Glenn(WV), 11-05-2002 07:20:11

Mr Glenn if you think the present gov't system of feed grain contracts is "free enterprise", you are incredibly stupid or need and enema to clear your mind. Out here in upstate NY, years ago, at one point, the "Johnny Big Rig" in one county , according to the Gannett Press, was receiving just over 62% of all the feed grain payments in that county. Naturally, he was in debt clear to his eyeballs, with most of it government money. It must have been a success!! What a bankruptcy!!

If you want some reality just go to www.ewg.org and find out who is really getting the billions of dollars of WELFARE from the gov't. It breaks out roughly as follows; about 2% percent, the Johnnie Big Rigs, get about 50% of all the monies, mostly from feed grain programs. About a third(?), the smaller farmers, growing more hay and legumes, the most environmentally favorable crops, don't get NOTHIN; nadda, rien, zippo, etc.

PAY ATTENTION PEOPLE, THIS IS THE IMPORTANT PART; it is our fault!!!(Yes, you also.) Even though we have far more bureaucrats than terrorists in our country, most bureaucrats are more of a threat to our future, we have not sterilized them; and we must. How? VOTE! Write your Senators and Congressmen. Tell them that you are glad to live in a Free Nation where food is abundant; but that you detest welfare schemes that make "Johnnie Big Pigs" with our tax monies which compete against and contribute to the demise of good family farms.

No family farm should have to compete against the greed of a "Johnnie Big Pig" and the bijillions of dollars in the US Treasury.

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Glenn(WV): I know better, so cool it

11-05-2002 15:07:40

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Re: Re: Re: Big Farmers in reply to Phil Munson, 11-05-2002 11:25:12

Phil, I'm well aware of how the government makes the grain payments, buys surplus crops to prop prices up, gives wasteful subsidies to the big guys and the agri-corporations, etc., and you will find no one more opposed to subsidizing the big guys than me. I've also visited the Environmental Working Group site many times and read the state-by-state rundowns. I am well aware of how the current system works, and that it is not true "free enterprise." My point is that I'd rather have the current system, with all of its problems and flaws, instead of an iron-fisted government forcing everyone into collectives like that in the old Soviet Union. Can YOU say YOU would want to try to support a family in a Communist collective environment? Do YOU want to see the world's breadbasket - America - forced to import grain to feed its people, like Russia still does today? Do you REALLY think that's better? Somehow, I doubt it. Even now, those Russian farmers are forced by necessity to pay for their equipment, fuel, seed, etc. in crops - and in many cases poor-quality crops at that. No cash - everyone is too poor! Even then many of the vendors won't take crops as payment.

I know that the current system is screwed up, but until the politicians who vote big subsidies to the big guys are voted out of office, we're going to be stuck with it. The politicians preach "save the family farmer" and then stab him in the back ... and yet people keep voting for them!

As for the "incredibly stupid" and "mind enema" remarks, I take offense to that. Seems to me that YOU need to cool your jets. I didn't take any potshots at you, but I suppose it's too much to ask of you to return the favor. Disagree with me all you like - I have no problem with that - but DON'T make it personal. Got it? Or do I need to make it clearer?

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Phil Munson

11-07-2002 07:10:49

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Big Farmers in reply to Glenn(WV): I know better, so cool it, 11-05-2002 15:07:40

Mr Glenn WV:

Thank you for your response to my comments about your initial post. Kindly note that I never said you are bad, evil or immoral, and that I have not intended to say anything bad about your character. However, your second post does greatly affirm that I am correct about your incredibly stupid remarks which assert that a crainial enema would assist your thought process.

In this country there have never been any significant collective farms. Before the Gov't provided financing to create and sustain Mega Farms, the most common agricultural enterprise was the family farm, which I greatly favor. Intimating, as you have, that the alternative to Mega Farms and billions of dollars in farm welfare is the communist collective farming system is totally idiotic. Can you name even one significant, successful, collective farm in our country? Your remarks about voting politicians out of office is both stupid and infantile. As a minority of less than 2%, farmers are limited in their political leverage.

I revisited the EWG site and found that I had understated the number of farms receiving nothing; it is over 60%, a clear majority. In other words if all the farmers receiving nothing were to reasonably, petition Congress, the Senate, and the President, requesting an end to farm welfare, saving billions of taxpayer dollars each year, it would get done.

Both of your posts express thoughts which are irrational, illogical, and incredibly stupid. Do I need to be more clear?

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Glenn(WV)

11-10-2002 12:49:44

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Big Farmers in reply to Phil Munson, 11-07-2002 07:10:49

Say all the cranial enema things you want, I don't care. As I said before, I'm opposed to any mega-anything receiving any sort of public subsidy, and that includes farms, airlines, anything.

And as for this:

"Your remarks about voting politicians out of office is both stupid and infantile. As a minority of less than 2%, farmers are limited in their political leverage."

Remember, out of tens of millions of votes cast in the 2000 presidential election, it only took 500 voters to put Bush into the White House and give Gore the boot. That was the difference in Florida. Every vote counts. Yes, farmers constitute less than 2% of the U.S. population as a whole, but in farm states they constitute a larger percentage of the population, and they can vote out U.S. senators and Congressmen if they want to do it. Senators and Congressmen are the ones who write and vote through the legislation giving pork to the mega-farms; they can be voted out by their home-state constituents.

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paul

11-06-2002 12:29:44

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Big Farmers in reply to Glenn(WV): I know better, so cool it, 11-05-2002 15:07:40

Nice to hear some level-headed comments on this, Glenn.

--->Paul, simple dirt farmer

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kraig WY Wonder why the Amish

11-04-2002 20:54:38

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Re: Big Farmers in reply to what do you think, 11-04-2002 04:14:29

can make it farming 20-40 acre farms. Maybe they work hard and don't believe in over capitalisation.

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Dave_D

11-06-2002 07:59:05

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Re: Re: Big Farmers in reply to kraig WY Wonder why the Amish , 11-04-2002 20:54:38

Way back when, President Ford was proposing that the first $100K that a farmer makes should not be taxable. Something like this would be a real shot in the arm for the small farmer. It would also be harder for the BIG Farmer to monopolize on this.

- Dave

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And ...

11-05-2002 07:21:10

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Re: Re: Big Farmers in reply to kraig WY Wonder why the Amish , 11-04-2002 20:54:38

the labor is cheap and readily available. ;-)

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John (C-IL)

11-04-2002 19:37:27

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Re: Big Farmers in reply to what do you think, 11-04-2002 04:14:29

Here in Central IL we have several guys in that 50,000 acre class. One of them just rented 160 acres a mile from me for $129 per acre. The government payment will give him $40 a year so his net rent is $89/acre. The seed companies fall all over them selves to sell him seed for less than my dealer discount and he buys grey market chemicals and fertilizer for 2/3rds of what I pay retail. His crop will be similar to mine or a little worse. Me, I farm 128 acres, work 3 jobs and the farm pays for it's self and gives me some toys to play with. Other people have boats and motor homes, I have a farm. I don't have to go see a psychiatrist either. John

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Dennis Benson

11-04-2002 19:09:35

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Re: Big Farmers in reply to what do you think, 11-04-2002 04:14:29

Back in the 1970's I was trying to learn to farm, and just getting started. I subscribed to the Indiana/Illinois Prairie Farmer. One day I received a letter saying I could no longer subscribe, they decided I wasn't a big enough farmer. Incidentally, they considered a 200 acre farm a garden. I subscribed to Michigan Farmer, and was informed by them that anyone can subscribe, and they don't even have to have a farm. In the end I quit farming, and found a job with a circus as a mechanic.

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Steven M

11-04-2002 15:47:21

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Re: Big Farmers in reply to what do you think, 11-04-2002 04:14:29

If you think small farms can't make it and big farms will. Think again!!

This Sat November 9th a 1700 cow dairy south of Green Bay Wisconsin is having a auction. The bank has put them to the end.
I'm told there 22 million in the hole.

They also have a 450,000 bushel grain set-up for the USDA The grain is missing! The owner sold it. I glad i'm not him.

Lots of the machinery is real new,but they don't own a thing!
Big farming like this really pays!!

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steve JD 4000

11-04-2002 16:11:47

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Re: Re: Big Farmers in reply to Steven M, 11-04-2002 15:47:21

yes that's right, when I was in the FSA office they showed me what a big farm is like A BIG back paymet! seem like they are in a hole and would every get out if crop price stays too low? I could not bet on high cost gas to irr all those acres!

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Brokenwrench

11-04-2002 13:55:24

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Re: Big Farmers in reply to what do you think, 11-04-2002 04:14:29

If the young farmers want to farm, let them pay the prevailing cash rent. Thats called free enterprise. You are not going to stop the large farms, this is the wave of the future. One cannot make a living, pay the mortgage, insurance, equipment payments on 150 acres, even if it was given to them. No banker or equipment company is going to extend credit in the hundreds of thousands of dollars, and expect to be repaid from the proceeds of a 150 acre farm. I feel sorry for the young guys, but unless they have $1,000,000 to capitalize themselves, and can get together 500-1000 acres of ground they just arent going to make it dirt farming anymore. The days of making a living off of 150 acres are gone. Sit down and figure out just what the start up expences will be, Tractors, equipment, truck(s), insurance, seed, fertilizer, spray materials etc. Not to mention payroll taxes, SS taxes, maintenance, and paying themselves a decent salary. Doesnt take long to go through 7-800000 dollars.

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farmerjosh

11-04-2002 18:57:05

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Re: Re: Big Farmers in reply to Brokenwrench, 11-04-2002 13:55:24

I Don't mean to be an a$$ but I dont like this guy!...I'm a 24 year old farmer in northeast missouri making a descent living on 200 acres of row crop, 40 cows, 30 sows, and 50 ewes, granted my equipment isnt new..69 model 4020, 68 model 95 deere combine...but it gets me done every year....if more people had your attitude on young farmers it would be a sad country..I happen to be a very active member in the Missouri Farmers Union where we are working very hard to save the family farm..if more retiring farmers would do their part to try and help young farmers there just might be a chance for the american farmer someday....if things keep going..some day there wont be anything bit corporate farms out there....I strongly urge everyone to consider joining the farmers union..I'm sure your state has a charter...and help us save the family farm!

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Brokenwrench

11-05-2002 15:53:44

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Re: Re: Re: Big Farmers in reply to farmerjosh, 11-04-2002 18:57:05

I was not trying to pi$$ anybody off, just commenting on the original post about stopping big farms. Land is a commodity just like corn or beans. If land is renting for $200, the Landlords are not going to rent it for $75 to get a fuzzy warm feeling. They have bills to pay just like everybody. There are good big farms and there are bad ones, just as there are good and bad snall farms.Time, management practices, weather, and a hundred other variables will decide if they succeed,or fail, not their size. Larger farms are here to stay, whether you like it or not. They get bigger due to normal expansion,or expanding to supply enough income for 1 or 2 extra families as sons and daughters decide to stay on the family farm, or for tax or inheritance reasons or a hundred more. If you can get by on 200 acres more power to you. My original comments were also based on someone starting out with nothing. No inherited land, no equipment, just a desire to farm.

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farmerjosh

11-05-2002 18:23:13

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Big Farmers in reply to Brokenwrench, 11-05-2002 15:53:44

sorry if I was rude....your probably not a bad guy....hope you will accept my apology. I did not inherit my land or machinery...the land was turned over to me by my father but so was his enormous debt from the 80's...there is a way to start from nothing...it can be done but you have to have one key thing....diversification!...don't put all your eggs in one basket.....and I would agree with you that we may not be able to stop the big farmers....the thought of this scares me but that could be the end of the family far as we see it if we arent careful!...maybe my opinion doesnt count for much...but if everybody has the passion for farming I did they wouldnt give in to corporate farming and they would help keep a legacy of the american farmer alive!

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WD-9

11-09-2002 16:22:27

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Big Farmers in reply to farmerjosh, 11-05-2002 18:23:13

Well said FarmerJosh, my family has a sizable farm of which I was an active member until about a year ago when I was ruted out by an jacka$$ sibling whom inhereted every piece of equipment and acre of land my grandfather had, because he was the oldest. Now I'm using my degree in Mechanical Engineering and working part-time for the neighbors. Originally working for the neigbors was just to kill some time, but it has worked out as a nice trade their machinery for my labor, my older idiot sibling is in the process of running the family farm into the ground and I just picked up 120 acres that a landlord took away from him HAHAHAHAHA. ps I'm 25 and one of the youngest "farmers" here in Eastern Illinois

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Phil Munson

11-10-2002 17:56:37

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Big Farmers in reply to WD-9, 11-09-2002 16:22:27

I don't know who you are but I like your handle. There is one of them in my shed. It has been on this farm for 48 years. Take care of your land and machinery and you will be a survivor. A half a million bucks in shiny tractors collecting dust in the driveway is for pride, not for profit. Profit pays the bills, pride usually destroys profit. Please don't laugh at your brother. I am not defending him. I just do not want you to diminish your own statuture and look like the person he probably is; whom you and LANDLORDS, both, do not appreciate.

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Iowa Farmer

11-04-2002 18:36:36

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Re: Re: Big Farmers in reply to Brokenwrench, 11-04-2002 13:55:24

we young farmers pay the prevailing cash rent. The big farmers around here got big very dishonestly. It wasnt because of hard work and dedication, it was done by backstabbing their neighbors and alot of debt being forgiven. Back in the 80's all of us small farmers had to pay back all of our loans (which was the right thating to do and we had no problem with that), but the big guys that had mismanaged themselves into a hole of debt several millions deep, had it all forgiven. they also got the land by calling up landloard and overbidding their neighbors and taking land away from them. You talk like the big farmers now will be around forever. They wont. Who will farm the land after them?

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Rich in Iowa

11-04-2002 17:42:48

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Re: Re: Big Farmers in reply to Brokenwrench, 11-04-2002 13:55:24

Sounds like Brokenwrench is another case of like what happened to a lot of the "gluts" back in the 80"s. Give 'em enough rope and they all eventually hang themselves. Borrowed money mixed with foolish pride create a Brokena--.

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Bill

11-04-2002 12:46:45

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Re: Big Farmers in reply to what do you think, 11-04-2002 04:14:29

The 200+ cash rent that these people pay will put a stop to themselves one of these days. The gov't has a cap on the new 02 Farm bill. Also if the person that rented the ground that was not in the previous program can keep all the $'s paid out and this could cause the landowners to not get what they should out of the LDPs. Example is I knew of a farm that is 1900 acres(it was share cropped) that renter rec'd $.16 a bushel @183 bushels to the acre and renter kept all, and this is not against the law. This figures to over $55,000. I dont know too many landowners that likes to give up their share! (my 2 cents)

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steve JD 4000

11-04-2002 11:54:21

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Re: Big Farmers in reply to what do you think, 11-04-2002 04:14:29

I dont know what to say about them, just go work for them..... I lost my grandmother's 80 acre family owned for 97 year farm that I own it for 4 years, FSA and Banker said I need to get out of that farm, the crop market price just drop too low to keep up on farming. am still really upset on that.

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thurlow

11-04-2002 11:45:29

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Re: Big Farmers in reply to what do you think, 11-04-2002 04:14:29

What's going on is called capitalism or free enterprise. You might also term it "economy of scale". There is a way to stop this; do what the Soviet Union, most of Eastern Europe, Cuba, China, etc did for 40-plus years. Bye, bye big farmers!!!

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Steve

11-04-2002 11:37:31

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Re: Big Farmers in reply to what do you think, 11-04-2002 04:14:29

Bet they still call themselves a family farm dont they.No amount of$$ will replace damage done to dirt by these types of (and I hate to call them ) farmers just my 2 cents.Steve

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redrev

11-04-2002 14:59:23

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Re: Re: Big Farmers in reply to Steve, 11-04-2002 11:37:31

Just thank NAFTA that brings us all that "good" food from foreign countries that is hardly fit for human consumption.

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