Welcome! Please use the navigational links to explore our website.
PartsASAP LogoCompany Logo (800) 853-2651

Shop Now

   Allis Chalmers Case Farmall IH Ford 8N,9N,2N Ford
   Ferguson John Deere Massey Ferguson Minn. Moline Oliver

Attention Forum Users: On the 28th of December 2023 at 9:00am Central Time, we will be taking the forums down for maintenance while we prepare the new forums for your use. Please click here for more information.

Discussion Forum

Plasma cutting and Spray welding

Welcome Guest, Log in or Register
Author 
TimC

10-20-2002 09:54:16




Report to Moderator

Anyone have any advise on buying these for personal hobby use. Are there any economical versions out there.




[Log in to Reply]   [No Email]
Steve U.S. Alloys

10-22-2002 06:17:46




Report to Moderator
 Re: Plasma cutting and Spray welding in reply to TimC, 10-20-2002 09:54:16  
pretty sound advice here, as usual. I may be able to add something regarding the metallising inquiry.

For restoring lost dimension to press fits, seal areas, or damaged shafts,..... the least amount of heat input is what is desirable. The low temp coatings will vary somewhat (150�F to 450�F) from one type of equipment and process to another. The most expensive (twin wire arc)sprays the coldest. Whether you use a two step powder, an exothermic powder, flame sprayed wire, or arc sprayed wire..... the bond will be mechanical and the bond strength will vary between processes. Todays equipment and consumables are capable of yielding bond strengths that are quite high. I often demonstrate this by pounding the daylights out of our freshly sprayed sample.

The bond created by these various processes creates the bond in much the same way as soldering processes create a bond. The 'new rub' is what is truly referred to as cold spray wherein kinetic energy creates the bond w/o heat being applied to the powder or the substrate. In the old days, when gravity fed torches where the rage, spray rates where very slow, part temps naturally were much higher, and bond strength was considerably lower. These torches are still available for sale to the price concious. Those torches earned a bad reputation that still lingers in the minds of those who have not kept up with the technological advancements.

A good supplier will have quality powders for the $16.00 to $23.00 per pound range. Wire can range from $4.00 to $23.00 per pound based on chemistry.

The hot process or spray and fuse torch is sometimes easily confused with the other processes. That torch will create a metallurgical bond and the welding powder actually bears a tensile strength rating. (A weld rather than simply a coating is realized.) Part temps will reach 1600�F to 1800�F and may sometimes be as high as 2400�F in certain instances. Using the proper techniques, these high temp torches can be used to repair damaged keyways and for shaft build-up. Powders will range from around $21.00# to 32.00# typically. High volume users will obtain some of those same powders for as little as $10.00# to $15.00#.

I would enjoy fielding questions pertaining to these processes either on this forum or privately. This is a field that I personally find to be quite exciting. It is the fastest growing segment of the welding industry right now and many of these methods are approved repairs by many of the major manufacturers such as Caterpillar, Boeing, Rolls Royce, and even the U.S. military. Many of these applications are for O.E.M. specs on new parts to enhance the performance of a certain material. It is, afterall, an endeavor in surface engineering.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Farmered

10-21-2002 22:29:24




Report to Moderator
 Re: Plasma cutting and Spray welding in reply to TimC, 10-20-2002 09:54:16  
The spray weld powder will run you about $45 a lb.
more or less depending on the material. Use something in the range of 60 Rockwell to hard surface plow shares etc. To build up a machineable
surface use 22 Rockwell and you can turn it in a lathe.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
dab

10-21-2002 11:14:37




Report to Moderator
 Re: Plasma cutting and Spray welding in reply to TimC, 10-20-2002 09:54:16  
Been down the road of cheap plasma cutters, get a good one, they are expensive enough to operate. I'm using a Miller 110v, now. Get a 220v, the duty cycle is worth it.

I'm going to show some ignorance on spray welding. I've farmed some of it out (engine cranks) and tehn had them turned and machined. Based on the cost of the spray welding, the cost of machining, and the equipment and expertise needed I wonder if it is economical. I can make a shaft out of new stock or arc weld (with the right electrode) and then turn on anything but a really high speed or internal shaft. I'd always thought if it needs the precision of spray welding and turning it has to be perfect. If it has to be perfect I'd want the best equipment money could buy.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
TimC

10-21-2002 14:28:09




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Plasma cutting and Spray welding in reply to dab, 10-21-2002 11:14:37  
Thanks but what does " they are expensive enough to operate." mean, power consumption? From what i can read they should be about the same as welding. Figuring 30 to 50 for cutting and 20 to 30 for the compressor. Granted i have never had a 110 welder so i wouldn't know what the bill should be. So if thats what you mean i see your point.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
david

10-21-2002 16:37:17




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: Plasma cutting and Spray welding in reply to TimC, 10-21-2002 14:28:09  
I've used three different HF models, a Northern model, a Lincoln, a Century, and now a Miller. All of them use consumable internal electrodes and tips (not cheap). The also require frequent repair. The Miller has had, by far, the lowest repair bills, nobody will work on the mail order units. My experience is about once per year using (on average) 2 hrs per week they need repair (any of them). Repair cost is usually about $200.00. Miller does (or did) have a 3 yr warrantey. Mainly on the 110's its the "board". I suspect it is b/c you have to run closer to maximum output (for the 110's have lower duty cycles and lower maximum output). At 90% or better of rated output and a 20% duty cycle the machine cycles out for 8 minutes after 2 minutes of operation. This is cutting 1/8 steel. Also, with most welding equipment, the 110v are engineered for hobby use, the 220v for light to moderate commercial, and 3 phase for heavy commercial.

I got into plasma 12 yrs ago thinking it would be a cheaper alternative to oxy/acetylene. In my experience it is not. It is a fabulous way to cut; quick, clean, no warping and I can't do without it but it is not a "cure all".

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
George md

10-20-2002 13:44:40




Report to Moderator
 Re: Plasma cutting and Spray welding in reply to TimC, 10-20-2002 09:54:16  
Tim ,

What type of spray welding , high temp (fusible materials ) or low temp ( metalizing ) oxy-acc powder , oxy-acc wire , electro spray wire ? george



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
TimC

10-20-2002 20:10:37




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Plasma cutting and Spray welding in reply to George md, 10-20-2002 13:44:40  
Building up worn cast or steel shafts for resurfacing.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
george md

10-20-2002 22:29:36




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: Plasma cutting and Spray welding in reply to TimC, 10-20-2002 20:10:37  
Tim,

The cheapest setup for that is oxy-acc powder ,but the powder is somewhat pricey . Email me .

george



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
bob

10-21-2002 14:09:00




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: Re: Plasma cutting and Spray welding in reply to george md, 10-20-2002 22:29:36  
plus most spray on powder is just a shrink fit



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
[Options]  [Printer Friendly]  [Posting Help]  [Return to Forum]   [Log in to Reply]

Hop to:


TRACTOR PARTS TRACTOR MANUALS
We sell tractor parts!  We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today. [ About Us ]

Home  |  Forums


Copyright © 1997-2023 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters

Website Accessibility Policy