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Well Problem

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TwinCreek

10-14-2002 04:39:25




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I am having a problem with my well pump system that I can't figure out. I have a 90 ft well with a jet pump and a surge tank. It seems I do not have any surge. When I turn the water on the pump turns on pretty quickly. I watched the pressure gauge and it seems like the pressure spikes down for a second then rebounds. In the mean time the pump goes on. I checked the pump and I checked the air pressure in the surge tank and they check out ok. I also tried changing the cut in/cut out settings and I still have the same problem only at different pressure settings. What else should I do or check? Thank you.

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TwinCreek

10-15-2002 04:05:32




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 Re: Well Problem in reply to TwinCreek, 10-14-2002 04:39:25  
Thanks everyone for your help! I checked the bladder tank and it had very little air in it. I added air (alot) and the system works good. Therefore, I'm sure the bladder is leaking and I will be buying a tank soon.



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Tom

10-15-2002 17:14:48




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 Re: Re: Well Problem in reply to TwinCreek, 10-15-2002 04:05:32  
If you keep adding air it may last quite a long time. Old style tanks (non blader) used to work this way. You could pump air into them, or shut off the system or isolate the tank with valves and drain it,letting air repalce the water, then it would work well for a fair amount of time until the water absorbed the air again. If you have an air compressor just give it a shot when the pressure is down. If you get too much air the only thing that will happen (if you stay within the normal pressure of the system) is that you will get a shot of air next time the tank is drawn down and the pump is about to come on.

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captain twining

10-14-2002 18:26:53




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 Re: Well Problem in reply to TwinCreek, 10-14-2002 04:39:25  
marc has hit the nail on the head. replace the tank as the bladder is either leaking or has ruptured.



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Tom

10-14-2002 17:50:56




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 Re: Well Problem in reply to TwinCreek, 10-14-2002 04:39:25  
The air in the tank acts like a spring to push the water out when the pump isn't rinning. When the pressure drops, the pump comes on, pumps water into the tank till a certain pressure is reached-compressing the air. If the spring is short/small, that is little air the pump has to come on often but not for long. If you have a big spring, that is a lot of air, the pump doesn't have to come on as often, it will run longer tough in order to compress the larger spring. A larger tank/spring is generally better unless your well gets very low and can't stand drawing a fairly large volume of water at any one time, then the smaller tank is better, it will draw smaller amounts of water more often, not drawing the well down a whole lot at one time. Most wells won't have this problem, go for the big tank. The air spring in the tank also makes it so the pump doesn't have to come on every time you get a drink of water or some other small drain on the supply.

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Marc

10-14-2002 08:58:11




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 Re: Well Problem in reply to TwinCreek, 10-14-2002 04:39:25  
The bladder in your tank has probably ruptured.
Not uncommon. Amtrol has a pretty good warranty.
When you buy a new bladder tank, up the size and it will extend the life of your pump because it won't cycle on/off as much.



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Scott Green

10-14-2002 08:24:07




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 Re: Well Problem in reply to TwinCreek, 10-14-2002 04:39:25  
Tank with bladder; it sounds like the tank is waterlogged. REMEDY: replace the tank , Tank without bladder; it sounds like the air volume control. REMEDY: replace air volume control. Which ever case , you don't have enough air volume to push the water out of the tank. In other words , your pump is doing all the pushing of water , when the air should be doing the pushing.



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glen sw wi

10-14-2002 06:47:40




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 Re: Well Problem in reply to TwinCreek, 10-14-2002 04:39:25  
You should have a label on the side of your tank giving air pressure setting for your system. Mine are- 20 psi on 40 psi off= 18psi air pressure 30 50 = 28 40 60 = 38 If you overpresurize the tank you will have them same efect as a waterlogged tank.



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F14

10-14-2002 04:51:17




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 Re: Well Problem in reply to TwinCreek, 10-14-2002 04:39:25  
Is your surge tank a bladder type? It sure sounds like you've lost your air cushion. Pressure is not as important as the volume of air being compressed. If you only have a teacup full of air being compressed, the pressure guage will read the same as if you've compressed a truckload, but it'll drop like a rock as soon as any water runs, because there's no volume to keep up the pressure.

If your tank is a bladder type, I'd say the bladder has ruptured or has a leak and has waterlogged.

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Ichabod

10-14-2002 14:36:56




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 Re: Re: Well Problem in reply to F14, 10-14-2002 04:51:17  
Here's a link to a pretty good pump site. Explains how the system works and how to check the precharge.



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TwinCreek

10-14-2002 04:55:27




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 Re: Re: Well Problem in reply to F14, 10-14-2002 04:51:17  
It is a bladder type. I checked the air pressure on the bladder tank using a tire pressure gauge. How can you tell if it is water logged?



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JMS/MN

10-14-2002 23:57:16




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 Re: Re: Re: Well Problem in reply to TwinCreek, 10-14-2002 04:55:27  
Drain the tank. Whether a bladder tank or not, you can still use it by just restarting your pump after the water is all drained out. Then you can either replace it with another bladder tank, or install the air injector. In the meantime, you'll have water.



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Bret

10-14-2002 05:23:01




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 Re: Re: Re: Well Problem in reply to TwinCreek, 10-14-2002 04:55:27  
Turn the faucet on and the pump off. Let the pressure off the system. If the tank is still heavy, like more than what you would figure the empty tank to weigh, it's probably waterlogged. Try pressurizing the tank with the system drained to about 40 lbs and see if the problem goes away. I have to repressurize one of my tanks about once a month. Still alot cheaper than replacing the tank.



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TwinCreek

10-14-2002 06:08:08




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Well Problem in reply to Bret, 10-14-2002 05:23:01  
Please excuse my basic questions, but if I turn the pump off and open the faucet to relieve the pressure, if the tank is working properly, should the air pressure read approx. 40 psi? I get the feeling that if I do the above, my tank may read no air pressure in the bladder.



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paul

10-14-2002 13:19:22




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Well Problem in reply to TwinCreek, 10-14-2002 06:08:08  
The pressure would read very low, only the head of the water pipe to your open faucet.

Don't worry about air pressure. You need to figure out if there is any air at all in your tank/bladder. It sounds 99% sure that there is not any air left.

Just add air, but have a faucet open & the pu,p off so you don't bust something!

If, after adding air your system works much better for at least several weeks, then you know that it is a bad bladder. Right now we are only 99% sure that it is a busted bladder. :)

--->Paul

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paul

10-14-2002 05:22:31




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 Re: Re: Re: Well Problem in reply to TwinCreek, 10-14-2002 04:55:27  
Well, you need to figure out how much water vs how much air is in the tank..... Sure sounds like that is the problem. You could relieve the pressure (turn off pump, leave faucet open) and slowly add air to your tank. If this helps, then you are operating your tank as a bladderless system, and you probably should get it replaced...

--->Paul



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