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Synthetic Oil

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Jim M (RI)

10-07-2002 15:23:53




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I read this boad every day and have gotten great advice. I know NOTHING about synthetic oil but have heard good things. I just bought a new Ford Expedition and am thinking of using synthetic oil. I only know of Mobil 1, but I think Castrol and others make it. Has anyone had any experience they could share? Thanks,

Jim




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Bill Mullens

10-10-2002 04:03:27




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 Re: Off topic - Synthetic Oil in reply to Jim M (RI), 10-07-2002 15:23:53  
Jim, I started using Mobil 1 in a big air cooled motorcycle that had a tendency to scorch cams with regular oil. This led me to use it in my turbo Dodge cars; both were switched to Mobil 1 at 90,000-100,000 miles, with no excessive leaks. Turbos are hard on oil. Since then, I started using it in all my autos and have had no bad experiences. My personal opinions call for me to change regular oil at 2500 miles and Mobil 1 at the manufacturer's recommendation (usually 7500). This way, at least, the price difference is lessened.
There is one thing to watch that somebody else mentioned. Ford has specifically issued service bulletins or recommendations dealing with synthetic oils. I believe it stated that sythetics were OK, but the specified maintenance intervals still had to be followed, and AN INITIAL BREAK-IN PERIOD must be allowed. I think that the break-in mileage was 4,000. Anyway, when I was researching the oils before switching to synthetic, I came across studies that showed in new engines, Mobil 1 didn't allow enough friction between the piston rings and cylinder wall to produce adequate break-in. This would cause break-in mileage to be greatly extended, and would cause the engine to burn oil during this time.
Hope it helps,
Bill

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steve

10-09-2002 18:40:38




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 Re: Off topic - Synthetic Oil in reply to Jim M (RI), 10-07-2002 15:23:53  
I buy Havoline standard oil 10W30 and put in my 1989 Ford F250 since it was new. Rolled over 195,000 miles today and still runs great. Spends most of the time on 25 mile trips down the highway to work and then back. Use to pull a camper on interstate. Change oil every 5,000 miles and use STP filter from Auto Zone. Never pay more that $1.15 for a quart, sometimes $.95 - guess i dont see a reason to pay for "magic" oil considering what i have now.

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Real Deal

10-08-2002 18:42:58




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 Re: Off topic - Synthetic Oil in reply to Jim M (RI), 10-07-2002 15:23:53  
Have used Mobil 1 5W30 for years and years in my cars and light trucks. Excellent results. But, don't extend the oil change milage. Change about 4000 miles, no matter what anyone tells you. The cost of using Mobil 1 is not really significant when you think about a pickup that costs over $30,000. Also, synthetics are not all made by same formula. Research on internet shows 99% of all tests are on Mobil 1. Many other synthetics are cheaply made gimics - stay away. Always stay away from blends - - waste of money since you don't know what you are getting.
Older tractors: Mobil Delvac 1300 15W40 oil for diesels or gas. Better than Shell Rotella.
New tractor: Mobil Delvac 1 Synthetic 5W40. Best diesel engine lub made. You will have to get it form the Mobil wholesale distributor. Available at large truck stops such as Petro (but at higher price)

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david

10-08-2002 11:39:00




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 Re: Off topic - Synthetic Oil in reply to Jim M (RI), 10-07-2002 15:23:53  
I agree with what everone has said, they are great. My question has always been, do they pay? I use a non sythetic in my tractors, small oil capacity (8 qts) and dusty conditions make regular changes as must (I've got pics. of some engines where people used sytheitcs to try to stretch the drain interval). With a 150 hour change interval of Shell Rotella 15w40 or Quaker State HDX 30 most of my diesels have over 5000 hours. I use the same reasoning with my diesel trucks, how much am I going to save using the sythetic. Figure on 300,000 out of a Cummins, get about 220,000 out of an International (I try to trade first). Cars (my wife's wheels, she gets antsy wanting a new one about 90,000-110,000. So I don't keep them long enough to get any benefits. Bottem line, sythetics are great but don't pay for me.

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G Taylor

10-08-2002 15:30:16




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 Re: Re: Off topic - Synthetic Oil in reply to david, 10-08-2002 11:39:00  
If operated in extreme heat especially while trailer towing or having a turbo, starting in extreme cold or running a race engine with higher than normal loads ...synthetic pays. Even winter driving with the thinner rear axle lube pays back with less "pumping" losses.



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scottey841

10-08-2002 10:20:55




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 Re: Off topic - Synthetic Oil in reply to Jim M (RI), 10-07-2002 15:23:53  
Mobil 1 is the way to go if you have a new engine. I worked in a Mobil station and when we put it in an engine with over 50K miles on it the customer would be back complaining of leaks and burning oil. I have used since 1980. All of my vehicles sit outside and turn over great in the winter. We also used Mobil 1 in racing engines and we would tear the engine apart after the season was over and still see the honing crosshatch on the cylinder walls.

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Mike

10-08-2002 08:02:46




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 Re: Off topic - Synthetic Oil in reply to Jim M (RI), 10-07-2002 15:23:53  
Sir,

I have over ten vehichles, most of them being from the late fifties and early sixties. After initial break in on a rebuild, I ALWAYS switch to Mobil 1 with the single exception of my two corvairs. They tend to leak anyway, so I did not wish to compound the problem. Air cooled corvairs run a little hotter, and the seals were kind of a weak spot on them so I stay with regular Mobil.

I have had several years experience with Mobil 1 and recommend it wholeheartedly. The problems that have been mentioned here by others are a result of not changing the oil often enough in my opinion. They DO NOT sludge up if changed regularly. You cannot go 25,000 miles between changes like they used to claim, but if you change it about as often as regular oil, the engine remains clean enough inside to eat off of.(So to speak).

On engines in good condition, I have NEVER experienced a problem with leaks or seepage from synthetic oil. That has never occured in any of my projects. However, I have to admit that I do not use it in old engines with already existing deposits.

Bottom line--if your goal is to obtain extreme longevity then you should go with Mobil 1. If you will trade it off around 100k miles or so, it will NOT PAY.

Just my two cents

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JerryU

10-08-2002 05:52:39




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 Re: Off topic - Synthetic Oil in reply to Jim M (RI), 10-07-2002 15:23:53  
Synthetics are good. Go get a quart and let it cool. It pours. Let it get hot, it doesn't thin out.

We run a fleet of 90 school buses and run it.

That being said, I had two personal Plymouth Voyagers, all with some miles on them. Thought the synthetic would be good. Well put it in, they leaked oil like a seive. The seals and gaskets all leaked. After two changes switched back and the leaks quit.

So, from my experience, if you want to use synthetics, I would use them from the get go. You might try them if your vehicle has miles and see if you develop leaks. If not, you win.

Only thing I can see, is that synthetic doesn't break down as easily as regular, but it does get contaminated, so I would still not go long long times between changes.

Just my "shadetree" opinion.

JU

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MAD DUC

10-08-2002 03:03:22




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 Re: Off topic - Synthetic Oil in reply to Jim M (RI), 10-07-2002 15:23:53  
I have been running AMSOIL for just over 5000 miles now and am very happy with it. At 3000 miles it still looked like I changed it that day, clean. I am using their filter also. Oil pressure has been very steady vs prior dyno and blended oils, don't know the reason for that. I have an Auto-Meter gauge and with the other oils at cruising speeds the gauge would jump back and fourth about 10psi, now it is steady.

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Ludwig

10-08-2002 07:29:14




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 Re: Re: Off topic - Synthetic Oil in reply to MAD DUC, 10-08-2002 03:03:22  
Are you using the 25,000 mile stuff? Did you install the remote filter hanger?
I'm considering that whole deal. I'd sure like to only change the oil once a year and get a couple miles to the gallon improvement.
I actually talked to an Amsoil distributor one day at a vintage snowmobile show. Unlike some of them I've talked to this guy didn't strike me as a nut. He's also had some experiences where he had critical failures of other parts on the engine, like the oil pan got smashed and lost his coolant and was able to limp the cars home with minimal damage. He's got a decent website too, check out www.allroutes.to

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MAD DUC

10-08-2002 07:58:02




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 Re: Re: Re: Off topic - Synthetic Oil in reply to Ludwig, 10-08-2002 07:29:14  
Yes I am using the 25,000 oil but not the remote filter, just their filter on the stock location. Don't think I am going to let it go the 25,000 but change it around 12-15,000 which will get me twice a year(once in the spring and just before the snow flies). I could believe making it home if it's not to far with no coolant, but I personally wouldn't try it with no oil.



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Ludwig

10-09-2002 07:47:17




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Off topic - Synthetic Oil in reply to MAD DUC, 10-08-2002 07:58:02  
I don't think I'd try to drive with no oil either, not on purpose anyway. If it was late at night and/or something was up it'd be nice to have some modest measure of security though...



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Scott Green

10-08-2002 00:08:17




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 Re: Off topic - Synthetic Oil in reply to Jim M (RI), 10-07-2002 15:23:53  
Jim , I use synthetic oil in my truck. No problems with leaks , sludge , or anything else. I like the isea of easy starting inthe winter time. It's also easy on the starter. I started out with Castrol synthetic oil , because that was the brand of regular oil I had used. The problem was , I could not get the weight oil I wanted at many places I shopped. Neighbor ran Mobil 1 in his race cars. He talked quite highly about Mobil 1 synthetic oil. I could buy the weight I wanted , just about anywhere. So I switched to Mobil 1. I've been very happy with Mobil 1.

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IMJMAC

10-07-2002 21:43:48




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 Re: Off topic - Synthetic Oil in reply to Jim M (RI), 10-07-2002 15:23:53  
I HAVE ALSO USED THE SYNTHETICS FOR SEVERAL YEARS. IT IS NOT RECOMMENDED FOR OLDER VECHILES SINCE THE SEALS,GASKETS AND SUCH ALREADY MAY BE LEAKING, THUS THE SYNTHETICS MAKE IT WORSE. I JUST RECENTLY READ THAT IT IS REALLY ONLY RECOMMENDED FOR EXTREME USE.THE ARTICLE SUGGESTED THE BLENDED TYPES FOR EVERYDAY USE VECHILES.



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Redtractorman

10-07-2002 18:39:09




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 Re: Off topic - Synthetic Oil in reply to Jim M (RI), 10-07-2002 15:23:53  
Yes I have used it in some of my vehicules,have it in my 97 chevy pickup and 2000 Astro van.You should get a little better gas mileage and easier starts in cold weather,have been vaery happy with it,I use Valveoline.
You should use regular oil until the engine has been broke in,I always wait until at least 20,000 miles.



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Nolan

10-07-2002 17:18:49




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 Re: Off topic - Synthetic Oil in reply to Jim M (RI), 10-07-2002 15:23:53  
I've been around synthetic oils for years, and in certain applications they are the cats meow.

My automotive experiences with them have been less then stellar though.

In the engines I've used it in, they sludged. Upon studying synthetic oils further I discovered this is natural as synthetic oils will not suspend contaminates the way standard oils will. Hence, sludge.

Leaks increased substantially. What was a damp gasket would become a leak with synthetics, a leak would become a stream. Again, this is natural with synthetic oils. They have a superior lubricity, and this is a trait of superior lubricity. It's also why the bottles of synthetic oil feel oily, and why the shelves under them tend to be oily.

My lowest mileage vehicle has over 200,000 running standard Castrol GTX. Other vehicles of mine are approaching half a million miles. No internal repairs on any of these vehicles, ever.

I will use a synthetic oil on a turbine. But in a truck car or tractor, in my experiences, it is overkill on the lubricity, and underkill on cleaning.

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dave

10-07-2002 17:01:42




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 Re: Off topic - Synthetic Oil in reply to Jim M (RI), 10-07-2002 15:23:53  
Jim, I have used synthetic oils for years in my car and pickup, with two very noticeable benefits. First the oil leakage from a hot engine has been cut to about 20% of what reg oil leaks... based upon the amount on the driveway, and second, the vehicles are much easier starting in the subzero temps. Others can probably cite oil film thicknesses and tech stuff, but all I know is what experience I have had with it.

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