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Question on pouring a slab

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sTEVE B

10-05-2002 16:25:47




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Hi All,
I am going to pour a slab in my 16'x 40' pole barn. The barn was here already.I took the back off the barn, so I could push dirt through with my dozer. My question is how deep should I go? I already went down around 14" below grade. I hope I didnt over due it.
I plan on putting a good layer of gravel down and then I will use 8" of 4000 psi concrete. How much gravel do I need ? I am in NE Pa. Winters can get a bit cold. Any suggestions. I am doing the labor. I will hire an old pro to do the pour. What do I need? Thanks Steve

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Chad L

10-08-2002 06:02:54




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 Re: question on pouring a slab in reply to sTEVE B, 10-05-2002 16:25:47  
Here's somthing to consider. I have a friend that works on crawlers and he told me about laying in a couple of I-beams or railroad rails in the concrete even with the surface. They run lengthwise in to the area that you will be driving in on. When you drive in you line the tracks up with the rails. They will help keep the tracks from chewing up the concrete. I've not seen it I've just been told about it, but it sounds good to me.

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Steve B

10-09-2002 04:32:15




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 Re: Re: question on pouring a slab in reply to Chad L, 10-08-2002 06:02:54  
Yes, I thought of that. I have a couple of RR track peuces I can Use. Thanks



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Steve B

10-08-2002 04:46:26




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 Re: question on pouring a slab in reply to sTEVE B, 10-05-2002 16:25:47  
Thanks for all the insight.
I have a fellow commeing by this week to take a look. Hopefully I don't get raped. I'll let you know how things turned out.



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Al

10-07-2002 19:52:50




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 Re: question on pouring a slab in reply to sTEVE B, 10-05-2002 16:25:47  
I'm a small town bldg contractor - not a concrete expert. I have a book on concrete work and it reads that the correct usage of steel rebar will increase the strenght of concrete about six times. I have rienforced smaller items only with heavy wire and it makes a LOT of difference. Just think if you have a six inch reinforced slab it could be as strong as 3 feet of regular. good luck Al.



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JEFF

10-07-2002 18:43:55




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 Re: question on pouring a slab in reply to sTEVE B, 10-05-2002 16:25:47  
Steve try this link
http://www.concretenetwork.com It should answer any more questions that you have. I work for a ready-mix company in TX and all these guys gave you all that I know. Hope it works out. JEFF



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Don LC

10-06-2002 05:26:41




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 Re: question on pouring a slab in reply to sTEVE B, 10-05-2002 16:25:47  
Do it as you have planed..... I poured 6"-7" of 4,000# for my motorhome (+20,000#)I also added 1/2 rod every 12" both ways.keep the rod 3",from the top.....First put heavy plastic down on top of the gravel ,keeps the moisture from comming up through the floor....Make sure you have extra help with garden rakes,4,000 # is sticky and very hard to move.....when you are done put a clear sealer on it..... good luck...

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VaTom

10-06-2002 08:49:08




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 Re: Re: question on pouring a slab in reply to Don LC, 10-06-2002 05:26:41  
Actually 4000# is no more difficult to handle than a weaker mix. Depends on the slump you order. Low slump is stiff and requires more effort. "Superplasticizers" reduce the amount of water needed for higher slump but the action only lasts 30-60 minutes at normal temperatures, then the concrete stiffens very rapidly.

Flatwork finishers often want to water down the mix to make it easier. That decreases the cured strength. The worst is adding a large amount of sodium chloride to make a high slump mix (almost self-leveling) set up quickly. You won't see any used on a gov't pour- for good reason. I once allowed it used for a private pour. Bad decision. Weak concrete that cracked badly. Last time I used that highly-recommended finisher too. I didn't know that non-chloride accelerators were available. Chloride has a tendency to eat any steel present.

An alternative to the sealer is to place sheet plastic over the fresh slab to slow down evaporation.

The American Concrete Institute has a good inexpensive booklet. All they want is for everyone to have a successful experience.

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Steve B

10-06-2002 15:46:19




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 Re: Re: Re: question on pouring a slab in reply to VaTom, 10-06-2002 08:49:08  
What the heck is slump, and what slump do you think I should order? How is it classified>



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VaTom

10-06-2002 17:47:09




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: question on pouring a slab in reply to Steve B, 10-06-2002 15:46:19  
Slump is measured in inches, of a cone of wet concrete that slumps down from the original height of the cone when the cone is removed. The local ready-mix guys think I'm nuts to work with a 3-4" slump as it takes more effort. For instance, if you are planning to use a vibratory screed, it will work at different slumps over different distances. High slump necessary for greater widths. If the screeding is to be done manually, the same applies.

You don't need a cone or measurements, but the guy in charge of the pour should be able to talk knowledgeably with the ready-mix company. Here, the driver notes on the ticket if there is a test cylinder used. That's to lab-test the strength of the concrete. They also note if water was added, which voids the strength request.

I quit bothering when I found out from a lab employee that the strength was always more than specified. The salesman told me that was the case but I didn't believe him. Covering their posteriors and accounting for our relatively high concrete costs. Your experience may vary. But if you ask for 4000# it won't make any practical difference, even if you add quite a bit of water.

The guy in charge really does have responsibility.

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T_Bone

10-07-2002 08:43:57




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: question on pouring a slab in reply to VaTom, 10-06-2002 17:47:09  
Hi Steve,

Before you start to far, you might pick out a local heavy equiptment repair shop and then visit the county planning and zoning deptartment. Pull the building plans for that building and see what the engineer spec'd for that floor. That will save you alot of guess work and money. The plans will give what base is required for your area.

Since your goal is to work on a Dozer, consider making only one area of the shop floor for the Dozer work. That might save you some dollars on the rest of the floor.

T_Bone

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lins

10-19-2002 08:06:47




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: question on pouring a slab in reply to T_Bone, 10-07-2002 08:43:57  
up here ( Ontario ) where you get some wicked winters, one very important thing is depth of frost. If you have cold conditions like these then you would be advised to pour a frost wall. You just scoop out enough dirt to your bldg. code depth and run a couple of 1/2 " lengths of rebar. Against the inside of the bldg.in your frost wall run some styrofoam sheets to keep the inside floor warm and being affectedby frost. Or if your winter is not severe, run an expansion joint the thickness of your floor against the outside perimeter of your pour.

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JEFF

10-06-2002 04:58:26




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 Re: question on pouring a slab in reply to sTEVE B, 10-05-2002 16:25:47  
Rock is OK, be sure to compact it real good. 4 to 6 inches will be fine for your base. I would consdier pouring 6 to 8 inches deep concrete with a minimum of 1 inch rock, with 2% air to minimize cracking in the winter. Pour it kind of dry (3 to 4 inch slump at the most) and dont use any excess water to get a good finish. Dig a beam twice as deep as your concrete is thick and as wide as it is thick around the perimeter and about 2 to 3 beams through the middle. Do it like this and it will be there longer than the barn will. JEFF

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Steve B

10-06-2002 03:59:54




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 Re: question on pouring a slab in reply to sTEVE B, 10-05-2002 16:25:47  
I will have a wood stove going from time to time. I plan on working on my dozer, 7 ton and my track loader with backhoe 8-9 ton. I have'nt yet hooked up with the "old pro" . There are a few in thw area, " Old masons that is" I just need to get a hold of one. What should I insulate?



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RickB.

10-06-2002 03:12:26




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 Re: question on pouring a slab in reply to sTEVE B, 10-05-2002 16:25:47  
I just this week poured 4-5" over 8" of well compacted gravel for my new shop. No wire or rod, just fiber(glass) added to the 3500# concrete with 1/2" aggregate. Time will tell, but I don't expect it to go anywhere. In the Hudson Valley of NY.



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VaTom

10-05-2002 20:26:19




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 Re: question on pouring a slab in reply to sTEVE B, 10-05-2002 16:25:47  
Well, you know you're not going below frost-line. The gravel will give any water a place to go without pushing on the concrete. Unless you're in a REALLY wet location, you're probably deep enough. The "old pro" didn't give you guidelines?

I can't imagine you needing 8" of concrete, but your ready-mix supplier will love you. And if you're not insulating it I guess you don't plan to heat the barn.

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Jim E

10-05-2002 17:16:03




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 Re: question on pouring a slab in reply to sTEVE B, 10-05-2002 16:25:47  
When I did my driveway my friend (who worked on several Interstate bridges) told me I should have 12" of base. We dug a pilot hole down through the stone that was already there and it was just about 12". Since the slab was only going to be 4" thick and the stone was so well compacted he felt I should be safe just to remove the top 4" of stone leaving 8". That was 12 years ago and the only cracks are the ones we scored. Of course we put in concrete fencing for strength. How heavy is the equipment you're putting inside? At my job they just replaced some old concrete with 6-8" new and we have 20-40 ton equipment going over it. Are you sure you need it that thick? BTW I'm in NE Indiana.

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