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Concrete floor heat

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Seamo

09-25-2002 19:10:03

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I have a friend that bought a different home and the work shop has heat tubes in the concrete which was fired by a wood burning boiler.He wants to get away from the wood burner . Can he heat this with a large water heater and a pump to circulate the water. Or do they make a small gas or LP fired boiler??? Earl

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SEAMO

09-26-2002 20:02:50

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Re: Concrete floor heat in reply to Seamo, 09-25-2002 19:10:03

Thanks to all of you for your quick reply. Earl

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Booger Bob

09-26-2002 09:54:49

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Re: Concrete floor heat in reply to Seamo, 09-25-2002 19:10:03

I use a regular 40 gallon gas water heater for mine, and I have the temperature on it turned down to about 120 degrees or so. My shop is 30 X 30 with two 150 ft loops of tubing in the concrete floor. I keep the shop 55 or 60 degrees in the winter (air temperature) and the floor is usually around 75 or so. Beautiful environment to work in! I put the heater in the basement of the house and ran insulated copper pipe to the attached shop, where the circulating pump and controls are. I didn't want the pilot flame and burner in the same space my "stuff" is in.

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Sparkplug

09-26-2002 07:48:48

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Re: Concrete floor heat in reply to Seamo, 09-25-2002 19:10:03

I am looking into a outdoor woodburner. I want to heat my house and workshop. I am looking into the Empyer or heatmore. Has anyone had dealings with these stoves?
I would leave the floor heat if it were me, I have been on the cold concrete foors before don't want to do it anymore. Thanks Tom

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kendall

09-26-2002 07:45:04

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Re: Concrete floor heat in reply to Seamo, 09-25-2002 19:10:03

Why dont you just stick a gas burner or 2 in where the wood goes. This would be the simplest and cheapest. If this is not enough to heat the whole shop, at least it will take the chill out of the floor and your friend could add a forced air heater to supplement the heated floor system.

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Farmered

09-26-2002 07:13:01

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Re: Concrete floor heat in reply to Seamo, 09-25-2002 19:10:03

Seamo, Your friend has the best there is. Why does he want to change? Floor heat is the best especially if you spend any time on a creeper under a vehicle. I heat a large house, small greenhouse and the floor of my shop with an outdoor wood furnace. I burn pallets. I estimate my heat bill would be $2500 a year with other sources. The only reason for not burning wood for me would be because of a local ordinance against burning wood, and then I think I'd move first.

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Don Wadge

09-26-2002 07:02:23

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Re: Concrete floor heat in reply to Seamo, 09-25-2002 19:10:03

You can use any method to heat the water. If you're not into wood, use the next most economic method for your area. The hot water must be circulated with an appropriate pump. Here in Manitoba this method has been used for many years in farm shops and is by far the most economical method of heating. When these shops are built the ground is covered with foam insulation and plastic tubeing (special application) is fastened to the rebar and the cement poured on this. Referring to Don LC's message earlier; I think something was not done correctly here. You have to have proper movement of the liquid and you need enough tubeing in the floor to dissipate the heat properly. There are many aspects to this system which make it more reasonable to operate one being that the heat is rising from the floor and if your feet are warm you don't need the room temperature as high to be comfortable. As I mentioned before this is very common place in farm shops and I'm not sure how common in industrial shops. One of the major problems with this method of heat has been properly controlling the temperature in terms of responsiveness. In the last few years more reasonably priced sophisticated controls have become available and we are now seeing this method of heating becoming more frequent in new home construction.

To answer your original question: You can use a hot water heater. There are also small boilers for this purpose (gas or electric), I have seen small cylindrical heaters (like swimming pool heaters) used and I have seen people who made their own from a section of 8" or 10" pipe with an electric heating element. You also have to be careful not to run the water too hot. I'm not sure what those guidelines are but when we refer to boilers we're not talking about water any where near the boiling point. I'm not an expert in this field, just passing on what I know of this heating method. If you have specific questions I could probably find out for you. Good luck.

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T_Bone

09-25-2002 23:13:48

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Re: Concrete floor heat in reply to Seamo, 09-25-2002 19:10:03

Hi Seamo,

Yep any size boiler in gas but more costly to run than wood. If he's not a wood person, cutting & splittng, would it be economical to have the wood delivered cut and stacked?

Although a HW heater would work theres a problem with insurrance and building codes if that is a concern.

T_Bone

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Don LC

09-25-2002 23:09:38

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Re: Concrete floor heat in reply to Seamo, 09-25-2002 19:10:03

Check around ,before your friend puts money into this system ! I know two guys here in southern Ohio that built there oun systems using 1/2" copper.... the cost to operate these systems on oil was out of sight..... they couldn't even afford to keep there shops above 55..... ..they both are now using forced air..... .

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Ludwig

09-26-2002 07:42:12

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Re: Re: Concrete floor heat in reply to Don LC, 09-25-2002 23:09:38

Don LC I think something must have been wrong in your friend's systems, I have a friend who heats a great big house with a teeny little furnace with underfloor heating. He's got pipes under the basement concrete and under the first floor wood. It takes quite awhile to heat things up if say you like it warmer than they do, but once you get up to a good temp it stays easy.
I asked him about it and he doesn't burn any more oil than my folks who have a much smaller house with baseboard.
He did mention that when the built the house there had to be some special insulation UNDER the basement and on the sides. The first floor joists have an aluminum foil type stuff underneith, then the pipes under that, then insulation under that.

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Don LC

09-26-2002 14:10:52

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Re: Re: Re: Concrete floor heat in reply to Ludwig, 09-26-2002 07:42:12

I think where the problem comes in..... you heat your house at say 70,24 hours a day,7 days a week....you don't need heat in your shop all the time....cost is too much....this system does not respond quick enough ,to turn it up while working and then back down..... .not only didn't they have heat when they wanted it....up and down cost way too much.....that's what they told me....I heat with gas forced air....warm when I need it cool when I don't...

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Mark

09-28-2002 19:06:23

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Concrete floor heat in reply to Don LC, 09-26-2002 14:10:52

Actually, in-floor, or radiant/hydronic heating is cheaper to leave at a constant 55-60 degrees at all times than trying to regulate up and down. And if you insulate under the slab before you pour, your cost of running will be far less than forced air. Another benefit is heat recovery is much quicker, since you don't heat the air, but the objects, when you roll tractors in and out of the shop in the winter, and the door's open, you loose lots of heat in a forced air shop, and the furnace runs a long time to catch up, radiant, your temps are right back to normal almost immediately. For a shop you spend any time in, in-floor radiant is FAR better in the long run.

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Ludwig

10-04-2002 16:37:54

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Concrete floor heat in reply to Mark, 09-28-2002 19:06:23

I've gotta believe thats true. Maybe have a small air heater to regulate up to where you want to be and leave the floor a bit cooler.
My friend has a GREAT BIG three floor house and justa little bitty furnace and its easy to keep it comfortable warm, the furnace doesn't seem to cycle any more often than in any other house I've been in and a whole lot less than some.

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Ray,IN

09-25-2002 19:41:56

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Re: Concrete floor heat in reply to Seamo, 09-25-2002 19:10:03

Yes, gas fired boilers are available; quite efficient and economical. Home water heaters aren't made for that use but will work. Then you'd have to add the circulating pump system that's already on the boiler.

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