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OT: Threading a Block and Tackle

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F14

08-22-2002 14:54:15




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I suspect there is something I fail to understand about how a block and tackle is supposed to work. I built one myself (I wanted an old-fashioned wood-framed unit for nostalgic reasons.) I finished it today, and threaded it up, and, well...it doesn't work.

After some consideration (and the odd incantation...) I've have come to the conclusion that the problem is one or more of the following:

1. I designed it wrong;

2. I have unrealistic expectations of how it should work, or;

3. I'm threading it wrong.

third party image

I tried two ways of threading it:

Start at fixed point on lower block
Up through middle pulley on top block
Down through left pulley on bottom block
Up through left pulley on top block
Down through right pulley on bottom block
Up through right pulley on top block.

Problem is, lines don't take up evenly, lower block wants to tip to the side nearest the line you pull on. So, thinking perhaps I had it bass-ackwards, I re-threaded it thusly:

Start at fixed point on bottom of top block
Down through right pulley on bottom block
Up through right pulley on top block
Down through left pulley on bottom block
Up through left pulley on top block.
(Middle pulley on top block is not used)

Took a strain, same problem.

I'm stumped, and more than a little frustrated. Anybody got any clue what I'm doing wrong?

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Scott Green

08-24-2002 03:55:57




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 Re: OT: Threading a Block and Tackle in reply to F14, 08-22-2002 14:54:15  
I've used block and tackle different times in the past , but can not picture in my mind exactly how things were. I'm saying to myself , two fixed points just doesn't make sense. You would not be able to lower or raise the block and tackle. Then I scrolled down the page , noticing others had the same thoughts. I would say that was your problem.



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Tom

08-22-2002 17:52:22




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 Re: OT: Threading a Block and Tackle in reply to F14, 08-22-2002 14:54:15  
Start at the fixed point at the bottom block, the double sheave one. Now, with the top block hanging and the lover block in your hand or lap, twist it 90 degrees so the axles are perpendicular. Go from the fixed point on the lower block up to an outsice sheave on the upper blocknow down to a lower sheave entering it from the side the rope logically would go in, the side under the upper sheave that the rope came from. Now go up to the upper block again and through the other outside sheave, and down again through the last lower sheave, again threading it from the side under the sheave the rope comes from, now to finish go up through the middle sheave. The blocks will be "crossed" but tjhis won't matter, you will be pulling from the center of the tip block so it will want to tip less. any angle or missalignment of the ropes because of the way it is threaded will not matter when the blocks are a few feet apart. I have threaded up two double blocks this way and two 4 sheave blocks this way. With four sheaves you can't get the end to come out of the middle of a block of course, but it is better than pulling from the end of a 4 sheave block. A tackle made of two double blocks threaded this way comes out looking "square", more sheaves make it look a little weird when the blockes are together, but , as I said when they are apart a few feet they will work fine and look OK too.

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F14...EUREKA!

08-23-2002 03:03:55




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 Re: Re: OT: Threading a Block and Tackle in reply to Tom, 08-22-2002 17:52:22  
THAT's the idea I was looking for. I'll rig it that way later this morning, and let you know how it works out. Thanks!



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Tom

08-24-2002 09:30:36




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 Re: Re: Re: OT: Threading a Block and Tackle in reply to F14...EUREKA!, 08-23-2002 03:03:55  
Well I hope it helped you, others had some good ideas too such as making sure your sheaves moved freely, important too. If you read my other posts too maybe they helped too. I would be interested to know how it works out for you.



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JMS/MN

08-22-2002 17:05:04




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 Re: OT: Threading a Block and Tackle in reply to F14, 08-22-2002 14:54:15  
I don't understand the two fixed points. Block and tackle should have one fixed point, other end of the rope hangs free and is pulled on to raise the load. Didn't check mine in the shop, but doesn't the free end come around the top pulley, and the fixed point is also on the bottom of the top pulley assembly? I think mine has two pulleys top and bottom, not three and two. Extra pulley may not hurt, just changes which side you're pulling from?

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F14

08-22-2002 17:46:48




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 Re: Re: OT: Threading a Block and Tackle in reply to JMS/MN, 08-22-2002 17:05:04  
The extra fixed point is "just in case" as I wasn't sure which block it should be on. One or the other won't be used.



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Rod (NH)

08-22-2002 18:03:44




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 Re: Re: Re: OT: Threading a Block and Tackle in reply to F14, 08-22-2002 17:46:48  
I have an old rope fall with a 2-sheave bottom block and a 3-sheave upper block. The bottom one has the fixed point. There is no fixed point (for rope) on the upper block.



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Tom

08-22-2002 18:11:07




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: OT: Threading a Block and Tackle in reply to Rod (NH), 08-22-2002 18:03:44  
Yes, the fixed point takes the place of a sheave sort of, it is as you say, the fixed point is always on the block with less sheaves unless they have the same number of sheaves, then it doesn't make any difference which block has the fixed point. Normally only one block will have a fixed point in a block and tackle.



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Fred

08-22-2002 15:55:29




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 Re: OT: Threading a Block and Tackle in reply to F14, 08-22-2002 14:54:15  
I agree with Mark on the friction, but I don't think it really matters a lot exactly how you thread the pulleys. The "tilting" of the lower pulley block will happen if there is no load on it. This is due to the rate at which the rope or line is shortened in relation to the adjacent ones. Put a load of some sort on it,(it need not be much more than 5-10lbs), and see if it doesn't lift with-out tilting. I would thread it so that there is minimal cross-over of the ropes to reduce the rope friction as much as possible. Start at the fixed point, top or bottom, and thread from one side to the other. The long end of the rope should exit the top R or L sheave. The more sheaves you have or use the more lop-sided it will pull without a load, but the more mechanical advantage you will have.

I hope this helps.

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F14

08-22-2002 17:51:23




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 Re: Re: OT: Threading a Block and Tackle in reply to Fred, 08-22-2002 15:55:29  
That's what I thought too, but I had 15 pounds or so of chain hanging at the load point, plus I was standing on it to take a strain and see if it would straighten up.

The sheaves on the bottom block are a bit tight, I'll free them up a tad and see if that helps.

I've had some referrals to some websites for nautical tackle, and it seems you can have the fixed point be either top or bottom, but having it on the bottom block adds one to the mechanical advantage.

I'll fool with it some more tomorrow and see what I come up with.

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Tom

08-22-2002 18:00:12




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 Re: Re: Re: OT: Threading a Block and Tackle in reply to F14, 08-22-2002 17:51:23  
The mechanical advantage you get (discounting friction losses) is the number of parts, (ropes holding the load up) It depends on which block has the load, if the block with the rope comming out of it has the load it adds a part, another supporting "part". In lifting say an engine to get this advantage you would have to be pulling up, not down from the top block. But in pulling your truck out of a stuck it would be natural to be pulling away from the truck and you would get the added mechanical advantage. Just count the "parts" of the tackle that are actually holding the load and if it is say 3 you have (again discounting friction) increased your force 3 times that of your pull on the end.

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MarkB

08-22-2002 15:19:41




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 Re: OT: Threading a Block and Tackle in reply to F14, 08-22-2002 14:54:15  
It sounds like you have too much friction somewhere. If the sheaves can't move freely, or the line can't move through the sheaves, you'll have the problem you describe.

You should be able to easily spin each sheave on the block with a light finger. If not, you need to free them up.

The line should pass through the block without dragging. You may have to use a smaller line.

Make sure that none of the lines touch each other. I wouldn't thread it the first way that you describe: You should start at one end of each block, not in the middle.

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