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Tree Jacks

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Tim B

07-29-2002 20:17:52

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I'm considering buying a Norwood Timbertool tree jack (This tool is essentially a long piston powered by a racheted cable spool similar to a come-a-long. Yes, it looks simple to make but at this point in my life, the time is worth more than the money). Has anyone used this tool or anything similar? I'm looking for any opinions as to how well they work.

Part of my immediate need is to fell two 24" dbh, 90' tall white pines - each about 50 to 60 feet from my house. I won't be felling too far off the natural fall line. Does this tool have the power to push trees this big?

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Beck

08-01-2002 08:54:20

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Re: Tree Jacks in reply to Tim B, 07-29-2002 20:17:52

Here's maybe the best web site link for felling.
Check out this and the following web pages.

www.international.husqvarna.com/node87.asp

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Beck, Trying for a clickable Link.

08-01-2002 09:28:44

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Re: Re: Tree Jacks in reply to Beck, 08-01-2002 08:54:20

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Russ

07-31-2002 19:37:06

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Re: Tree Jacks in reply to Tim B, 07-29-2002 20:17:52

Hi Tim B, you haven`t said much about any lean other than you wouldn`t be felling much against the natural fall line, so I`m assuming the trees are pretty straight. Are the limbs balanced pretty well or are they going to pull the trees where you don`t want them? If you are not fighting anything too extreme, wedges and a good hinge should do the job. Are you familiar with bore cutting the hinge? This method gives excellent directional control because a good hinge can overcome many other forces. First you take your time and make a nice clean, large face notch in the direction of your intended fall, use your felling sites if your saw has them, then make a plunge cut about an inch or two above the base cut of the face notch, parallel to the V formed by the notch, just like you would want to end up in a traditional felling cut. Get your hinge nice and square with parallel sides, 2 1/2 to 3" thick. You can take your time making a nice clean hinge because the tree is still supported by most of it`s diameter. Once your hinge is what you want it to be, cut backward away from the hinge until you are 3-4 inches from cutting out, now pull the saw out and drive in a bunch of wedges, drive `em in good and hard. When the wedges are in, make the back cut just like normal and the tree goes down where you want it. This method also gets you away from the business end a little quicker and prevents barberchair. I looked at the link for the jacks you asked about and I`m a little skeptical. Have you seen them in use or know anyone who has them? Silvey is the brand that I`m familiar with, and some loggers felling incredibly big timber swear by them. They are a few grand for a set though. It used to be that Bailey`s would rent or lease equipment, maybe that would be an option for you if you want jacks. BTW, my description of this technique probably leaves something to be desired, make sure you fully understand it before you try it. Oh yeah, and don`t forget the wind. Russ

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Tim B

08-02-2002 14:24:45

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Re: Re: Tree Jacks in reply to Russ, 07-31-2002 19:37:06

Russ, thanks. I think I got all that and it sounds reasonable, except where to drive the wedges. You're saying drive the wedges into both ends of the expanded plunge cut?

Seems like I'll be hitting them with the saw on the final back cut, unless I put the wedge forward toward the hinge.

Am I missing something?

Bye-the-bye. Norwood's tree jack also looks like a small tree tool to me - that's why I was asking. Would probably be handy too, although probably not $400 handy if just for small trees and considering the amount of tree cuitting I do these days. I don't know anyone who has used one. That's why I'm asking.

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Russ

08-03-2002 15:42:26

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Re: Re: Re: Tree Jacks in reply to Tim B, 08-02-2002 14:24:45

Hi Tim B., you`re on the right track. Yeah you do have to use a little forethought on how you place the wedges, I guess I wasnt clear on that. There are two ways you can approach cutting the holding wood, ie; the backcut. You can pull the saw out and cut toward the notch, just like a normal backcut, or leave the saw in after you formed the hinge, drive the wedges, and then just cut straight out the back. One of the other guys here asked me for illustrations and I was able to come up with a link for some pics of this process. BTW, this site, ForestApps, is an excellent resource for woods workers. Hopefully my link will work. Russ

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Russ

08-03-2002 15:45:55

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Tree Jacks in reply to Russ, 08-03-2002 15:42:26

Alright, I guess I haven`t got the knack for posting links on this site, haven`t been successful yet. Sorry, but you guys will have to copy and paste the link from here. Russ

Try this: www.forestapps.com/tips/backcut/backcut.htm

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Roger

08-01-2002 09:31:47

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Re: Re: Tree Jacks in reply to Russ, 07-31-2002 19:37:06

Russ;
Sounds like a good technique but I must admit, I'm
not sure I've got it right. Might you have a
sketch or some illustration you can refer me to? A
URL?
Thank you,
Roger

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beck

07-31-2002 09:43:42

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Re: Tree Jacks in reply to Tim B, 07-29-2002 20:17:52

I've used felling wedges many times to push a tree I'm cutting in the right direction. Let's see: 24" stump ~= 8" notch & 2" hinge, leaves 14" for chainsaw blade and wedges. Drive the wedges in behind the blade as you cut. I would choose that method over a jack. I've never used the rope or winch method. And, yes, I have cut big trees near the house, and on the roadside.

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DumOleBob

07-30-2002 15:31:12

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Re: Tree Jacks in reply to Tim B, 07-29-2002 20:17:52

With all due respect - Frankly, if you even "THINK" you might need a tree jack to fell a 90' tree that close to your house you'd better call in a pro with the right gear, knowledge & INSURANCE. Most professional timber fallers rarely use a tree jack. I assume cause all it does it get things started in what you might think is the right direction. It's what happens after that which kills people, e.g. stump jumpers, wind, bad "hinge", poor read, etc. etc.

Please think about having a pro get it on the ground & then you same $ by cutting it up. . The diff between a pro and the cost of a good timber jack isn't thant much.

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Tim B

07-30-2002 21:28:52

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Re: Re: Tree Jacks in reply to DumOleBob, 07-30-2002 15:31:12

Bob,

In a former life, cutting firewood off wood lots, I've felled hundreds of trees - including trees as large as the pines I described. Otherwise I would not even THINK about cutting them.

The "pull-it with a cable" method works for me as for the others that have responded - just trying to see if these tree jacks are as great as the manufacturer claims. It sure would save lots of time and labor.

As far as the cost of a professional wood cutter, the tree jack is about $400, based on what I've seen freinds pay in this area (Central Mass), I would guess each of these trees would cost on the order of $800 to $1000 to have taken down. Then there are the other dozen or so smaller trees $$$$

Besides, when would I get to have any fun?

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VaTom

07-31-2002 04:09:33

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Re: Re: Re: Tree Jacks in reply to Tim B, 07-30-2002 21:28:52

Hey Bob,

And you need a little excitement occasionally. Let us skeptics know how it works if you do buy one. I've been wrong before but it sure looks like a SMALL tree item.

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Roger

07-30-2002 12:01:50

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Re: Tree Jacks in reply to Tim B, 07-29-2002 20:17:52

Tim;
Can you post a picture of the Tree Jack or a link
to the manufacturer? I'd like to see what this
device actually looks like.
Thank you
Roger

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Tim B

07-30-2002 21:31:30

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Re: Re: Tree Jacks in reply to Roger, 07-30-2002 12:01:50

Link

Courtesy of VARodger down below.

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Roger

07-30-2002 12:01:50

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Re: Tree Jacks in reply to Tim B, 07-29-2002 20:17:52

Tim;
Can you post a picture of the Tree Jack or a link
to the manufacturer? I'd like to see what this
device actually looks like.
Thank you
Roger

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Pcc-AL

07-30-2002 01:46:18

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Re: Tree Jacks in reply to Tim B, 07-29-2002 20:17:52

Hi Tim,
I haven't used the tool you mention either, but I agree with Thomas. I have cut many trees using a method similar to the one Thomas describes. However, I never thought to use the bow and arrow to get the leader string over the tree. I just used a weight and threw it. I have a very long chain and use it instead of rope, but a strong rope is good. Finally, I use my tractor to put tention on the chain in the direction I want the tree to fall. Cut your notch on the tree side in the direction of the fall and go at it but be careful. I have known folks to be hurt or killed by a tree falling on them.

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Thomas Rodgers

07-29-2002 21:51:57

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Re: Tree Jacks in reply to Tim B, 07-29-2002 20:17:52

My house is surrounded by mature hardwoods, some as close as 6-10 feet. We use a kids bow and arrow to shoot rope up into the trees when they die and work a larger rope up into them. Then we cinch the rope down or use a pulley to tension the tree in the felling direction. Sometimes we scale the tree (I have a 40 ft ladder for the purpose) and lower limbs first with the rope run through a crotch in the tree. Sometimes we use another tree as a support if we take a top down. Rope is cheap but automation is easier!

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Brian G. NY

07-30-2002 07:24:28

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Re: Re: Tree Jacks in reply to Thomas Rodgers, 07-29-2002 21:51:57

I use 3/8" steel cable and run it thru a "snatchblock" attached to the base of a tree near the direction in which the tree is to fall. This gives the pulling vehicle better traction and the cable need not be as long. I did fall a 50' Catalpa by hooking direct to my WD-45 because there was no tree nearby. You need to put good steady tension on it as the cut is being made and as soon as the tree begins to move, increase the speed of the towing vehicle rapidly to assure the tree doesn't "lay off" to the side. Make sure hooks are wired and all connections are secured so nothing comes "undone" at the worst possible time.

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VaTom

07-30-2002 13:54:27

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Re: Re: Re: Tree Jacks in reply to Brian G. NY, 07-30-2002 07:24:28

I use a similar method for felling, but use my truck winch. Only problem I've had was once uprooting an 80' oak. Sure surprised my help who was cutting the stump. A comealong works well if I can't get the truck in close enough (200'). My comealong came from Bailey's and is the only one I've used that will stand up well to hard use.

www.baileys-online.com

They also have real tree jacks but I don't know anybody with enough use to have sprung for even the little 45 ton one. The Norwood jack can be seen at:

Link

Interesting idea but I think I'll stick with my winch.

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Thomas Rodgers

07-30-2002 14:51:50

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Tree Jacks in reply to VaTom, 07-30-2002 13:54:27

I saw the link to the device. The one thing I really don't like is that a tree can come over it because it doesn't go high enough. When the base of the tree breaks it could pivot on the jack and fall anywhich way. I'll stick to pulling the top of the tree the way I want it to go with rope.

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VaTom

07-30-2002 15:02:17

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Tree Jacks in reply to Thomas Rodgers, 07-30-2002 14:51:50

Bingo!!!!! Exactly why I'll stick with what I've been successfully doing. I prefer living.

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