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Door question

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Mark Kw

07-23-2002 07:11:57




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Got a bit of a door problem I'm hoping to get some help with. My shop was previously occupied and changes were made before my arrival that I'm not pleased with. I have an opening in the center bay that is 9' wide by 8' high. This used to be an overhead door but was replaced with a wall section and 3'x6-8 man door. As it would be, this man door is the most often used entry/exit door for both the house and shop. Problem is, from time to time I need to get larger items into and out of this bay that won't fit through this man door.
I checked into an overhead with a man door in it and the price is not only high but completely unreasonable, pushing $2500 w/ hardware and install.

The building construction will not allow me to move the man door to a different location without causing major problems, secondly I only need the larger door once in a while. I got to thinking about making a large double swing door section for this opening and hanging the existing man door within one of the larger doors. Thus, when bigger door is opened, the smaller door will swing with it.

Since I'm far from a carpenter and don't deal with doors unless I have to, I got some questions. The existing man door is a pre-hung insulated steel home entry door the swings out w/ an alum threshold. I don't want to use a threshold for the larger doors as the floor is concrete and I plan on using a vinyl seal strip on the bottom leaving 1/4" or so of clearance to the floor. This leaves a problem with the threshold on the steel door. I am thinking of using 2x4 framing for the larger doors and figured I could just use the bottom frame as the threshold for the steel door (iff need be, add a piece of weather strip to the bottom of the steel door to get a seal against the 2x4).

Next question is hinges. The wall is 8" concrete block with 2x8 wood framing in the opening. This gives me enough room to recess the larger doors into the opening at least 1.5" to maintain the flush look of the outside of the shop. Since the larger doors themselves will be rather heavy, I need hinges capable of handling the weight. I can either anchor them into the 2x8 framing of the opening or wrap them over this and attach them to the concrete wall sections on either side of the opening. Whats your thoughts on strap hinges with one side bent to allow the recess of the door into the opening?

Any thoughts or suggestions are very much welcome.

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VaTom

07-23-2002 09:52:35




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 Re: door question in reply to Mark Kw, 07-23-2002 07:11:57  
My similar situation has a door within a door. The larger door is 6 1/2'x8' which holds a 4'x7' inner door. I'm cast-in-place concrete but only used Tapcons for holding the frame to the wall, and then normal ballbearing butts (3 per door). My total swing is 6-700 lbs. The hinges handle it fine-what they're made for. I used normal bottom seals. One thing I found necessary was a bottom latch on the larger door to keep it flat. I find the 4' wide door normally enough. The larger door will let the tractor through.

Those strap hinges aren't a good idea unless they have ballbearings. Shouldn't be any problem hanging your doors from the 2x8, as long as they're attached securely. Check the weight rating of your hardware.

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Mark Kw

07-23-2002 10:06:00




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 Re: Re: door question in reply to VaTom, 07-23-2002 09:52:35  
Have not purchased anything yet, waiting for all the input before doing anything. I found it best to ask around first before shooting myself in the foot with wasted time and money.

Looking into the idea of small and larger door as opposed to three doors. Will think this one over.



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slughammer

07-23-2002 09:25:57




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 Re: door question in reply to Mark Kw, 07-23-2002 07:11:57  
I'd buy a big box of concrete screws to anchor the 2x8s to the concrete block and then use standard type hinges instead of the wrap around. The 2X4 threshold may be a problem with either the building inspector or OSHA. Inspector may want non-wood threshold and OSHA may consider 2X4 cross section a trip hazard. You may try to taper the 2x4 in the area and cover it with the original threshold. What kind of header is there across the opening? Mark, two swing out doors does not sound fancy enough for you. If the header will take it, make that door a one piece wall section that will hinge along the top and swing out. Put a boom pole outside to winch the thing open. - Slughammer

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Mark Kw

07-23-2002 09:59:39




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 Re: Re: door question in reply to slughammer, 07-23-2002 09:25:57  
2x8's are secure to the block, actually will be replacing the existing ones with new ones. I wasn't fond of the swing door idea until I saw it done on a retail store front. Granted theirs are production models made from extruded aluminum but it works great for them. I called the mfg of these and the price is totally out of the question, for similar set up to fit my sizes $8250!! I need as much of the opening as I can get, plan on taking pick-up trucks and cars in and out as necessary when the other bay is tied up.

Header is plenty strong, 8" steel beam, but having the overhead swing on either inside or out will cause logistical problems loading and unloading items from trucks. I ran all the options and the swing doors are what will work best for the least cost and time investment. I don't plan on being here much longer so I don't want to get into serious changes and costs.

Thought about installing the threshold over the 2x4 but didn't think about the osha factor, should be easy enough to do this way.

For anchoring the hinges to the 2x8's, should I just use stainless steel wood screws or put a steel plate on the back side of the wood then use self tapping 1/4"-20 screws to attach the hinges? Don't want to have trouble with loose hinges/screws.

How about weather strip/stops? Saw numerous types of these, extruded AL with U shape vinyl and also foam rubber for the seal. Price is reasonable either way, more concerned with what will work better. Going to loose some heat no matter what I do but I'd like to keep the losses as low as possible.

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pete

07-23-2002 08:50:40




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 Re: door question in reply to Mark Kw, 07-23-2002 07:11:57  
Sounds like you got ahold of the wrong door man. I don't know what neck of the woods you're in but try checking with Amarr doors, in Georgia I think. I got a roll-up insulated door installed which is 1/3rd larger and half the price.



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bill b va

07-23-2002 08:30:45




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 Re: door question in reply to Mark Kw, 07-23-2002 07:11:57  

you might want to look at a set of prehung french doors like i put in my basement .total width 6 ft . they are 2 doors with one having pins to keep it stationary unless you want to open both then you just slide the pins from the top and bottom and open it like a regular door. the other door opens just like a regular entrance door . you should be able to ge them from any lumber yard . i got mine from lowes (fiberglass about $600 ) steel ones around $400 i think . the extra room of your opening could be brought in with either cement blocks or wood framing . think about which door you want to be the regular door . there are options ( left -right and swing in or out)

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paul

07-23-2002 09:40:50




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 Re: Re: door question in reply to bill b va, 07-23-2002 08:30:45  
That's a good idea. No one says the doors need to be equal size, either. Make the walk-through a normal width, and the other size wider.

--->Paul



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Mark Kw

07-23-2002 10:01:49




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 Re: Re: Re: door question in reply to paul, 07-23-2002 09:40:50  
Now that's an idea I had not considered... back to the start again... he he

This is why I value input from numerous people so much.



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big fred

07-23-2002 08:15:07




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 Re: door question in reply to Mark Kw, 07-23-2002 07:11:57  
If it was my shop, I'd make the big door a one-piece sliding door, like a barn door, and put the man door in it. A large double swinging door should work fine, though, and it should be just fine if you hang it on the 2x8 framing, provided that framing is securely fastened to the block wall. You may want to add a couple bolts to attach the 2x8 to the block adjacent to your hinges if you have any doubts about how well it is attached.

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paul

07-23-2002 08:01:40




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 Re: door question in reply to Mark Kw, 07-23-2002 07:11:57  
I've seen a lot of overhead bi-fold doors with a mandoor in them. They seal nice, and I guess are not that difficult to build, if you find a pattern...

--->Paul



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