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Welder wiring

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Bob

07-10-2002 08:29:44




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Recently an old Forney B welder came my way. Unfortunately, it came my way missing the plug. The cord has three wires: black, white, and green. Question is, how to I wire these to the plug? From this color combination, it's not immediately obvious to me who's hot and who's not. Any suggestions?




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Terry G

07-11-2002 06:18:40




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 Re: Welder wiring in reply to Bob, 07-10-2002 08:29:44  
Bob, If the cord has ever been replaced on the welder I would open the case and make sure how it was wired up on the welder end. It should be as everyone here says but depending on who replaced it you never know.
Terry G



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JT

07-10-2002 22:58:54




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 Re: Welder wiring in reply to Bob, 07-10-2002 08:29:44  
Bob

With line current (110 and 220) green is ALWAYS ground. I beleive code makes it illegal to be anything else. Black should always be current and white can be either neutral (with 120) or current (120 or 220).

To make things simple for your application get a 50 amp range outlet and plug. Wire the white and black to the angled plugs and the green to the straight one. Black and white go to the two sides of the 220 in your fuse/breaker box and the green goes to the ground bar.

Make sure the wire is adequatly sized to the application and the circuit is properly protected with the proper size fuses or breaker.

HTH
JT

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BB

07-10-2002 09:47:09




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 Re: Welder wiring in reply to Bob, 07-10-2002 08:29:44  
Is it 120 VAC or 220 VAC? That will determine the plug type. There should be a nameplate on it some where that tells the required input voltage and amperage.
Green will be ground. Black will be AC hot. The white will either be neutral (if 120 VAC) or the opposite hot leg (if 220 VAC).



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Bob

07-10-2002 13:07:16




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 Re: Re: Welder wiring in reply to BB, 07-10-2002 09:47:09  
Oops, I meant to mention that it's 220. I guess I'm just confused because I've NEVER seen a white hot wire. Never. Just like I've never seen a green hot wire.



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bill b va

07-10-2002 17:04:35




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 Re: Re: Re: Welder wiring in reply to Bob, 07-10-2002 13:07:16  

i can guarantee that the welder dosen't know one color from another. the colors are for identification only .you have been good advice .



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Mike (WA)

07-11-2002 12:18:30




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Welder wiring in reply to bill b va, 07-10-2002 17:04:35  
One of those wires is a ground, and I gaur-on-tee that the welder will show you the difference if you get the ground hooked to the hot lead!



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Bob

07-11-2002 12:32:55




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Welder wiring in reply to Mike (WA), 07-11-2002 12:18:30  

Yep, that's EXACTLY what I'm trying to avoid!



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Bob

07-11-2002 06:09:10




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Welder wiring in reply to bill b va, 07-10-2002 17:04:35  
Well, yes, the welder doesn't know one color from another, and color coding is for identification. According to NEC 1999 (not the most recent, but I'm sure this hasn't changed) both in article 310-12(c) under general wiring and 400-22(c) under flexible cords, white is specified as a color to be used ONLY for grounded conductors. That's why I wouldn't expect to have a black, a white, and a green in a 220v cord. Black, red, and green, OK. Black, red, white, and green for a 120/220 cord, OK. But black, white, and green in a 220 cord indicates to me that color identification as specified in NEC was ignored. And if that's so, I'm not confident that I know whether code has been ignored by making a white wire hot, or by making a green wire hot. Which is why I posed the question in the first place. If I'm misinterpreting NEC, please enlighten me. I'm always willing to learn.

My guess -- which seems to be confirmed by the replies I've gotten here -- was that the white is hot and the green is ground, so that's how I'll wire the plug. Thanks to all who responded.

While on the subject of NEC interpretation, can someone give me an example of the correct application of article 630-11(a)?

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Bus Driver

07-13-2002 11:59:36




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Welder wiring in reply to Bob, 07-11-2002 06:09:10  
NEC 630-11(a) permits use of smaller conductors for (individual) welders if the duty cycle (of the welder) forces the operator to allow cool-off periods for the machine. My old Airco (nonmotor generator)purchased in 1958 has a 20% duty cycle. The article permits one to muttiply the nameplate amperage of the welder by the factor in the table. In this case, the factor is 0.45. For a nameplate amperage of 40, the result after the calculation is 18. So this welder could be wired with #12 supply conductors and still comply with the code. But that does not insure satisfactory operation, only that the conductors will not be damaged from the application. Such a welder would operate well with #10 conductors. Hope this answers your question. My better welder is a Lincoln Idealarc AC/DC 250. Love it.

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Bus Driver

07-13-2002 12:08:14




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Welder wiring in reply to Bus Driver , 07-13-2002 11:59:36  
My slow typing left me unable to edit my comments. Code rules do not NECESSARILY insure satisfactory operation. Considering that you might someday move up to a better welder, someone starting out should plan eventually using a larger welder and wire accordingly. But the code would allow #12 wire with 40 amp fuse or circuit breaker and 50 ampere receptacle for circuits supplying ONLY such a welder as described in my first post. Woe unto the electrician that encounters an inspector not familiar with this code provision.

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bill b va

07-11-2002 10:24:56




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Welder wiring in reply to Bob, 07-11-2002 06:09:10  

didn't mean to sound like a smart a$$. there are several places white can be hot .another is a switch loop in a lighting circuit .i don't know the code but have spent some time studying it. about the only thing i found is a lot of exceptions to their rules .many grandfathered things . last i knew knob and tube is still legal from about 100 years ago..bill



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