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Need to make water alarm for leaky basement.

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Robert in Md.

06-20-2002 19:17:09




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Just purchased 14 acres across the field including a house with old pipes and a leaky basement. I would like to make or buy some kind of water alarm so I can tell if a pipe has burst or the water has leaked through the walls.I want it to go off when the water is about 1 inch deep and sound a loud alarm out side the house so I can hear it from my home about 800 ft away. There is a sump pump in the basement but the pit is only about 4 inches deep and the switch would not operate until the water got really deep. Does the alarm need to be ll0volts or 12 volts. Anyone got any ideas of what to make or buy? Any suggestions will be appreciated. Thanks

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Hal/WA

06-23-2002 21:59:20




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 Re: Need to make water alarm for leaky basement. in reply to Robert in Md., 06-20-2002 19:17:09  
Have you considered digging the sump pit to the proper depth, so the regular sump pump would work right? It would be some work, but doing it right would give me some peace of mind. I also would tell my renters that there might be a problem with water in the basement and put it in the rental agreement that I am not responsible for any damage caused by them putting things on the basement floor.

Another idea would be setting up a float switch for the alarm in the sump pit, using a simple mercury switch. Fix it so when the float is floating, the mercury makes contact. That should be able to handle most any voltage, even 110, though I would use doorbell circuit voltage myself. I have not looked for a mercury switch lately, but at least some of the silent type wall switches used a tube with a little bit of mercury to make the contacts.

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Ralph

06-21-2002 18:36:29




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 Re: Need to make water alarm for leaky basement. in reply to Robert in Md., 06-20-2002 19:17:09  
If you like to experiment use the 2 wire probes or the clothespin but if you care about reliability buy a switch that is made for this purpose.



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Rick B (WA)

06-21-2002 15:51:48




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 Re: Need to make water alarm for leaky basement. in reply to Robert in Md., 06-20-2002 19:17:09  
Make yourself a "switch" out of an ordinary clothes pin (with the metal spring), by attaching one of your wires to each leg of the pin. Arrange the wires so that they touch firmly when the clothes pin is closed.

To use, place an aspirin tablet in the jaws of the clothes pin and place it near the floor, at whatever level you want to detect. Moisture will disolve the aspirin tablet, allowing the wires to close the switch and sound the buzzer. The rest of the circuit is as T-bone described.

Good Luck

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rhudson try radio shack 273-060 buzzer

06-21-2002 13:08:17




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 Re: Need to make water alarm for leaky basement. in reply to Robert in Md., 06-20-2002 19:17:09  
Welllll...i kinda always considered T-bone as Last Word. i had a radioshack buzzer in one of my many parts boxes. i used bare copper wires in water from a nearby cattle trough. it works. i think you could hear it from a distance.

there are six buzzers listed in catalogue that are rated as 10mA or less. all at around 70db to 95 db.

i think X10.com has water alarms even some that will dial a phone number and tell you to get your buckets

lets have a good weekend.

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Curt

06-21-2002 12:11:32




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 Re: Need to make water alarm for leaky basement. in reply to Robert in Md., 06-20-2002 19:17:09  
you can buy a bilge pump switch from cabelas that will do what you want. I have a picture of it if you want it



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Just tested T-Bone suggestion - Test Results

06-21-2002 06:57:34




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 Re: Need to make water alarm for leaky basement. in reply to Robert in Md., 06-20-2002 19:17:09  
Bob Weber here. I just dipped a cup of water out of the pond, used a Simpson 260 VOM, fresh charged 12-volt battery, and a pair of 1/4 inch bolts for electrodes. Dipped the bolts in the water and measured a 10ma current, which in my opinion is adequate for a trigger for an electronic alarm system, but will probably not operate a standard interrupted coil magnetic buzzer. So I stand by my original post, which said: "T-bone, I question the reliability of your design, or whether it would even work. Two small wire ends dipped in water do not make a very reliable switch, and if you need very much current flow to drive the buzzer it won't work at all. Your method of testing with a metal strip would make the buzzer go off, but there's a big difference in the conductivity of a metal strip vs water."

I never said it absolutely wouldn't work, merely questioned the reliability of it, which I still do. As an added point, if the probes are left in the water for an extended period of time, and the water between the probes becomes ionized, electrolysis will begin and the current flow between the probes will increase. (Same reason it takes your vaporizer a long time to start producing steam) As mentioned in another reply, the mineral content of the water will make a difference in how much current flows.

I'd feel much better using some kind of float switch designed for this purpose.

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T_Bone

06-21-2002 07:33:59




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 Re: Re: Need to make water alarm for leaky basement. in reply to Just tested T-Bone suggestion - Test Results, 06-21-2002 06:57:34  
Hi Bob,

Here we go again. 1) follow directions, 2) follow directions, 3) follow directions

Did I say anything about using BOLTS as probes? No
You still have not wired up the alarm as I stated so your GUESSING that it won't work and that sir is what upsets me about your post. Your condeming my design without trying it as I posted in the instructions. Had you wanted to discuss my design then my answer to you would have been much different with a totally different tone but to condem something that you have not tried is just wrong.

Your words Bob "but will probably not operate a standard interrupted coil magnetic buzzer." So you have not tried it so how do you know? Did I say anything about using a magnetic buzzer?

The wire probes are not in water execpt when water has triggered the alarm so there will be no build up of minerals nor will the probes become ionized.
As I stated from time to time the probes will need to be cleaned just about the time the battery needs replaced.

I also use SS probes for continious emerssion in water for sensor probes for control of our deep well pumps. The probes have to be cleaned every "five years" to keep all running to snuff. Well systems has been using this type of control circuit for many years with out any problems. I have been using this design for the past 20yrs and it was used for 15yrs before I got here. I think 35yrs of testing is enough to say the design works!

Now if you would like to build this alarm and would like a detailed parts list, under $10, I would be more than willing to let you eat some crow!

T_Bone

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Bob

06-21-2002 07:43:30




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 Re: Re: Re: Need to make water alarm for leaky basement. in reply to T_Bone, 06-21-2002 07:33:59  
I used bolts to get more surface contacting the water, hence more current flow. When I did it with just the wires, current was only about 6ma. And remember, I'm not saying this doesn't work for you, just wouldn't use it myself.

Why would I need to eat crow? I pulled a big tasty snapper out of the pond when I was getting water to test with!



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Roger

06-21-2002 06:42:26




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 Re: Need to make water alarm for leaky basement. in reply to Robert in Md., 06-20-2002 19:17:09  
Don;
I had a similar problem before I dug the sump pit
larger and deeper. Now, the little Flotec pump
takes care of any incoming water before it reaches
the floor.
Good luck.
Roger



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DonB

06-20-2002 21:01:54




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 Re: Need to make water alarm for leaky basement. in reply to Robert in Md., 06-20-2002 19:17:09  
For a cheap sensor, get one of those wodden spring close pins. Wrap a few turns of wire around each jaw and off to your favorite alarm. Then put an asprin to hold the jaws apart. Rising water disolves the asprin, completing the connection.

The alarm should be battery powered because what if the latest storm knocks the power out.



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Ray,IN

06-20-2002 19:58:23




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 Re: Need to make water alarm for leaky basement. in reply to Robert in Md., 06-20-2002 19:17:09  
Northern machine sells a sump pump with alarm and battery backup. It's easy to add a remote siren/horn like the guys said.



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RandyB

06-20-2002 19:46:28




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 Re: Need to make water alarm for leaky basement. in reply to Robert in Md., 06-20-2002 19:17:09  
Here is a cheap wireless unit from Amazon.com. You probably could rig a louder horn or take the receiver unit with you when away from the house.



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T_Bone

06-20-2002 19:44:50




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 Re: Need to make water alarm for leaky basement. in reply to Robert in Md., 06-20-2002 19:17:09  
Hi Robert,

By a book on basic electricity.

Next vist a Radio Shack and buy a 12v buzzer, 12v battery and whatever length of wire you need from the buzzer to the basement. Phone wire or t-stat wire works well.

Run a battery hot (plus side) lead to one side of the buzzer.

Run another wire from the other lead of the buzzer to the basement and end 1" above floor. Strip the end of wire about 1/4".

Take another wire and run 1" above floor and next too the wire you just ran. Strip the end about 1/4". These are your two sensor wires. Continue this wire back to the negitive side of the battery. The alarm circuit is now complete.

Leave alittle extra wire where you attach them to the wall as the wire ends will corroide or need to be cleaned from time to time.

How it works:
When the water raises 1", it completes the circuit by connecting the two bear end of the wires thru the water. This completes the battery circuit with the buzzer thus sounding off the alarm.

To test alarm, put any metal accross the two wire ends and the buzzer will sound. If not the battery is dead or the buzzer is bad or theres a break in the wire.

T_Bone

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bob

06-21-2002 06:01:47




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 Re: Re: Need to make water alarm for leaky basement. in reply to T_Bone, 06-20-2002 19:44:50  
Once again T BOne you are on the right track. Only way this won,t work is if your water was boiled and had all impuritys boiled out like in battery water. We used this same system at power plant. Maybe work more sensetive in high mineral water or high iron content but it will WORK bob



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Bob Weber

06-21-2002 05:15:50




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 Re: Re: Need to make water alarm for leaky basement. in reply to T_Bone, 06-20-2002 19:44:50  
T-bone, I question the reliability of your design, or whether it would even work. Two small wire ends dipped in water do not make a very reliable switch, and if you need very much current flow to drive the buzzer it won't work at all. Your method of testing with a metal strip would make the buzzer go off, but there's a big difference in the conductivity of a metal strip vs water.



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T_Bone

06-21-2002 05:52:01




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 Re: Re: Re: Need to make water alarm for leaky basement. in reply to Bob Weber, 06-21-2002 05:15:50  

Read my answer to Big Daddy or who ever he is.

T_Bone



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It don't work big daddy

06-21-2002 05:10:16




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 Re: Re: Need to make water alarm for leaky basement. in reply to T_Bone, 06-20-2002 19:44:50  
I am not an electrical 'spurt like T-bone is, but I didn't think you could run 12V through the water and sound an alarm. Somthen to do with resistance, but I tried it today just to make sure. I can't light a small 12V bulb (not even dim) with T-Bones water swtch. Don't think it will run a buzzer either. You wong this time 'bone.



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T_Bone

06-21-2002 05:49:04




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 Re: Re: Re: Need to make water alarm for leaky basement. in reply to It don't work big daddy, 06-21-2002 05:10:16  
Well guys, you better tell the 1000ft well shaft that it don't work either as thats what I designed the buzzer for. The unit works as stated. We tell our shaft water level with this and it works even with driping water on the probes.

Before you condem someones design you best try it first Bubba!

And another thing, why do you post under different names? Butch or Butch(OH) or Big Daddy or whoever you are!

T_Bone

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Aint Butch Einstein

06-21-2002 07:58:10




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Need to make water alarm for leaky basement. in reply to T_Bone, 06-21-2002 05:49:04  
Read my post, I tested it before I posted. One good 12V battery. One 1157 tail light bulb (remember the guy wants to here this buzzer across the road and that don�t happen on milliamps and 12V) One water puddle in the driveway and one metal strip to test connections as per your directions. Works when I make the connection with the strip, don't work when I dip the wire ends in the water. Why? You tell me, I am just reporting my results. Like Bob Weber said, You might be able to sound a small electronic buzzer that is insensitive to voltage drop and operates on milliamps, but you sure aren�t going to sound a buzzer that can be heard across the road cause that takes amps that you aren�t going to pass through water with 12V. I do find it interesting that you, (who quotes from the electrical code book regularly and chastises those who give advise here that goes against code) would advocate hanging bare wires in water were people might walk in it to start with. By the way, Butch Cherrington and I work for the same company he is a nice guy. Butch always posts as Butch or Butch(OH). Our 'putors are networked and internet comes thru same cable modem. (See, I know how to I. D. posters by I.P. address too Mr T-bone, but it isn't foolproof as you can see). You owe him an apology, but don't worry he called me to tell me about your answer and is laughing about it right now. Funny thing you should say something about condemning without being sure eh?

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T_Bone

06-21-2002 08:37:33




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Need to make water alarm for leaky basement. in reply to Aint Butch Einstein, 06-21-2002 07:58:10  
Well you have never posted before as the IP addy only goes to Butch, Butch(OH) and Big Daddy so as far as I'm concerned your Butch or whoever you post as. Most people who hide there identity usually have nothing worth saying and do nothing other than to try to cause problems!

You answered your own post as to why your test failed. Following directions will help alot.

If you knew anything about basic electricity you would know that many bilge pumps use the same sensing method and is not against any code. Why?

T_Bone

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JT and who is T_Bone anyway

06-24-2002 00:59:46




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Need to make water alarm for leaky basement. in reply to T_Bone, 06-21-2002 08:37:33  
T_bone

I agree with you people who hide there ID on these forums have there head in a dark warm moist area on there body... wait a second T_Bone seems like a funny name for parents to give a kid.

Kinda seems like you should look in the mirror when pointing fingers about people hiding identities especially when you post as T_Bone

Just JT



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T_Bone

06-24-2002 11:17:09




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Need to make water alarm for leaky basement. in reply to JT and who is T_Bone anyway, 06-24-2002 00:59:46  
T_Bone is a person who trys to help people and not like some people who like to cause hate and discontent and contribute nothing!!!

Can you relate to that JT?

T_Bone



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JT

06-25-2002 00:26:10




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Need to make water alarm for leaky basement. in reply to T_Bone, 06-24-2002 11:17:09  
T_Bone

I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say. It just seems a little odd to me that when a person tries to discredit someone else by comenting about them using a Nom De Plume and then doesn't sign with there own real name.

I don't want anybody to lose any sleep over anything I say here but if other people not signing there posts with their real names bothers you. It would seem to make sense that a person who would say "Most people who hide there identity usually have nothing worth saying and do nothing other than to try to cause problems!"
would be more than willing to use their own name when signing that message. I know it can be real easy to be mean OR get offended when you are not face to face like in this forum.

I don't want to get anyones blood pressure to the boiling point just offer up some food for thought.

JT

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Master of the Universe

06-26-2002 15:29:31




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Need to make water alarm for leaky basement. in reply to JT, 06-25-2002 00:26:10  
Don't ypu hate it when people don't use their real names.....Master of the Universe aka Al English



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T_Bone

06-25-2002 12:18:40




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Need to make water alarm for leaky basement. in reply to JT, 06-25-2002 00:26:10  
JT if you go back a look at some previous posts that where hate and discontent is raised you will see that the ones causing the problems usually post under "several" different names(handles) thinking there hiding from the normal name they use to post. On this fourm they can NOT do that as the site owner posts the ISP addy with the post as it's made.

How do you use this feature:
Use search this website on the left side column.
enter the website ISP addy found at the top of the post your reading.

example your addy (206.72.36.5)
Now enter 206 72 36 and search. No dots or last number needed but add the spaces between numbers. It will bring up all the posts that this ISP addy has posted along with other posts that contain one or more serries of the search numbers. You have to open each post to see if it is the exact same number and the name of the poster. You then will see what name(s) this ISP addy uses.

This also can be used for finding a informitive post you would like to read.

Now enter my ISP addy and you'll see I only post as T_Bone my nickname for the past 35yrs.

Now what do I do with this info? When the trouble maker poster wants help to a problem, I ignor them!

T_Bone

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JT

06-25-2002 23:20:42




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Need to make water alarm for leaky basement. in reply to T_Bone, 06-25-2002 12:18:40  
T bone

Hey that is kinda neat.

I would even mention that you might want to look at my post to "Clubs----Your Opinion on this!" in the Tractor talk board. Nothing relavent to our discussion here just some of my philosphy on life and tractor show management.

I hope we can part friends here. Incendently my name is John Thumma. I am a 35 year old farmer in NW Iowa and I collect LP tractors with single fronts, any brand.

Thanks for the search tip it is always nice to learn something new.

JT

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Frank M.

06-24-2002 16:50:44




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Need to make water alarm for leaky basement. in reply to T_Bone, 06-24-2002 11:17:09  
Hang in there T_Bone.
For everyone else reading this, I've been reading this board for quite some time now and I've never known T_Bone to give out bad advice. My 2 cents
Frank M



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MarkB

06-20-2002 19:28:06




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 Re: Need to make water alarm for leaky basement. in reply to Robert in Md., 06-20-2002 19:17:09  
Go to a marine hardware store and buy a bilge pump switch. Pretty much everyone carries the "Rule" brand switch. They run about 20-25 bucks.

You can run 115 vac through a Rule switch, but there's no need to do it. Hook it up to a 24V doorbell transformer and a doorbell, and you're all set.



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Robert in Md.

06-20-2002 20:24:16




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 Re: Re: Need to make water alarm for leaky basement. in reply to MarkB, 06-20-2002 19:28:06  
Thanks for the ideas, guys. I would hate to get a call from my renter and the basement would have 6 ft. of water in it. thanks again,.



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