Medium duty truck?

Since I went into detail in my "SAE" post about how no one builds a truck that fits my needs, I'm looking to put another one together myself. I've got it narrowed down to a few different choices for the base vehicle, here's the list:

1- Chevy 3500 w/ utility body and bucket boom. Five different ones to choose from with gas and diesel engines. All the diesel's have a stick tranny w/ pto for the hydraulic and electric power. All the gas ones have auto tranny w/ Onan genset for hydraulic and electric power. All have between 50K and 150K miles on them.

2- Ford F-350's as above, some with the power stroke diesel and some with gas engines, auto and stick trannies. Bodies all similar to above and all have similar milages as well.

3- F-700 w/ brazillian diesel engine and allison auto tranny. This one has a 24' van body on that is shot but has a heavy duty lift gate. Has 250K miles on it.

4- Ford F-450 cab and chassis. Not sure on the engine, no tags or lables visible, but looks to be a power stroke. Lot of oil on the engine but appears to be coming from the top, can,'t see much with all the hoses and other crap on top of it. Chassis tag reads GVW 15,000 and the frame and such look decent. This one has 128K miles on it.

Considering that no matter what one I choose to go with, all are priced between $3k and $5k, I'm going to be ripping it down and rebuilding it to fit my needs. What I'd like is comments and suggestions on the engine, trans. and chassis. Since I don't normally deal with vehicles under 30k GVW, I don't know what's good or not. I do know I'm not fond of the auto trannies at all. I also don't much care for the bucket boom set-up's using the PTO power, I'd rather pull an Onan genset from one of the other trucks and use that rather than racking up the hours on the truck enigne and trans (much cheaper to replace if/when it gives out). I'm most concerned with front end chassis problems, engine/tranny - parts cost and availability. If I'm going to put the time and money into building something, I don't want to end up with something that will cost a fortune to repair or I can't get parts for at all. Body and frame is no big deal as I can build, repair or modify to get what I want without a problem.

Thanks for any help,
Mark Kw

I am not partial to brands, I do not know about chev or dodge.
Open the hood on that later model ford powerstroke and explain how to work on that shoehorned S O B with the windsheild covering clear up to the front of the engine!!! Very near to a van underhood
I work on these !@#$%^&* and yes they do require maintenance and repairs.
Had to vent a little boys and yes I feel better now have fun with it.

By the way, Navistar builds the Power Stroke for Ford, it's not a Ford product. Good luck on your choices. My experience is that people trade a small truck like that (half ton to ton and a half) only when there are problems so check very carefully so you know which problem you are buying.

Filters from NAPA and EVERYTHING else no problem- and inexpensive- shows up UPS in a couple of days. Mine's a '69 Kaiser but when I went to rebuild the front end I bought parts that were packaged in 1953! Army's rating is 5 tons on a road but people who have one frequently load on substantially more (me). In my case, the 10 wheel drive (front optional) was the deciding factor. Power steering by armstrong, unless you add a unit.

I don't know enough about trucks to be much help in choosing which one to get to build on, but if you end up with a Ford power stroke, you'll want to know about the Power Stroke forum on freeautoadvise.com
Link

good luck

If you use the anti-freeze additive then they don't get pinholes from cavation. About once/yr. Test strips from NAPA, IH, Ford, etc tells when to add it or if it's been added. Very important for most diesels now.

I have a 02 F350 PSD and it has 100k mile anti-freeze without additive but we don't know who the supplier is as it's new for 2002.

The new PSD's are 275hp-525ft/lb where the mid 90's are 215hp-460ft/lbs?.

Just lately alot guys over on www.ford-diesel.com have discovered that Fords fuel system is leaking air into the fuel that may be the cause of cackle/knock. Ford uses alot of "O-ring" type line connectors thats causing the leaks. On guy just striped his stock fuel supply system out and found great running improvements. To new to tell if any side affects. About $200

Turbo mounting bolts sometimes have a problem of getting loose. Some do some don't.

Clutchs seam to be another problem area of underdesign. Most are replacing with a LUX clutch and Kelvar pilot bushing. Again some do some don't but the ones that fail usually take out the input shaft.

Alot talk about air filters. Some claim great results with after market filters but oil anylisis shows higher silicone. Free filter upgrade from Ford on some modles.

Other than that, I here alot of 200k to 500k miles without problems.

T_Bone

Thanks for the spelling correction, LUK :)

Would you ask him if the 02's went to a 13" clutch?
How about the Kelvar pilot bushing?

Theres rumors but no confirmation.

T_Bone

I am going to check with the local drive line shop I use for all my big truck items and ask about re-builds on the ZF's before I consider these any further. Personally, I'd like to stay in the 10k - 15k GVW range of size for this truck but not if it's going to cost more in the long run than going with a smaller size CDL class chassis. I'm real fond of the spicer 5 speeds like the one in my C-70 GMC attached to the 8.2L turbo diesel. The only problem I have with the 8.2 now is finding a good supply of parts. Cat's are completely out of the question because I have seen too many problems with them coupled with exteremely high parts prices. I'm Ok with the older cummins except for the small cams since parts for these are becoming very dear as well. I'd go with a 350 or 400 big cam in a heartbeat for three reasons; 1- easy to repair, 2- cheap parts, 3- very long life with some TLC. Biggest choice I have now is to decide on going with a non-CDL chassis and hope it lasts or going with a small size CDL class chassis and building something I know will last.

The ZF 5 and 6spd are rebuildable. AL cased but have been holding up well. For 02 and other years the ZF5&6 is used from a F250 to a F550. I read that on my 01/02 Ford CD manual.

Ford increased there ZF ouput shaft diameter in 1999.5 models to 1-3/8", before that 1-1/4" and both Dodge and Ford were twisting off input shafts on the diesels at about 200k miles.

I ran accross a website several months ago that sold new ZF-6spd for about $1500, out right no core, no shipping included. They also listed 4R100 autos for about the same price. The prices supprised me as I thought they would be higher.

A F350 DRW has a 11500 GVWR in the pick-up and 12500 GVWR in cab chassis. The 11500 is on my 4wd crew cab, lwb, but Ford does not increase the GVWR for a 2wd regular cab, ohh the rating game!

F450 is about 18000 GVWR max
F550 is upto 30000 GVWR max

The above is all PSD and the gassers are rated less, but not by much other than the F550.

You didn't mention Dodge but I have looked at Dodge 4wd pick-ups and didn't buy one because of the way the front axle attached to the frame. Very Cheap and underdesigned along with there phony hubs!

I don't know a thing about Chevy as I'm not a alumnium head diesel lover.

T_Bone

I can get a used ZF from the same guy with the truck for $900 but still...triple the price of most any other tranny. Since the ZF seems to be the only one that will bolt up to the PSD without a major re-work, it's a limiting factor indeed.

Because of the repair cost factor alone, I am seriouly considering going with the Chevy 350 gas engine in the 3500 chassis. Not that I'm fond of any engine that needs spark plugs but when looking at overall cost factors, the chevy is fast winning out.

I've decided that if I do go with the 10k - 15k GVW range, my expected life span for use of it will be 5-7 years. During that time, I can estimate a total milage use of about 50k - 80k at most. I don't do a lot of running, most of my time is spent on the job site. Considering that the ZF's behind the PSD's are also running the PTO for the hydraulic and electric power, I can expect that the milage on the truck being 65k, the use run up on the engine and tranny would be around 350k. Considered by my drive line shop to be the end of the expected life span for both engine and tranny.

Factoring in everything, expected use, former use, ease and cost of repairs and everything else, I'm swaying to the side of going with a larger CDL class chassis and building a truck I can expect to get at least 15 years out of. I checked into several options with a CDL class truck. I can buy a new Freightliner FL-70 with a cummins, 9 speed tranny, 28" sleeper box factory installed, 22.5 rubber with hub pilot wheels, chassis built to the length I spec, standard size Q style brake shoes and standard brake drums for $41,000 and get a 5 year 500k mile warranty on it.

I have not decided exactly what I would go with yet in the CDL class. More than likely, I would rather go with a used chassis and build what I want and be done with it. I'm not real fond of buying a total new chassis and taking it all apart to make it they way I wanted it to begin with. There is no mfg that give a hoot about properly assembling a vehicle to last many years such as rust proofing the areas under the engine and cab mounts, between the frame components, ect. I've done enough work on old rust buckets to know where the rust starts and how to keep it from happening to start with. I spent 3 years building my heavy duty service truck but this was an investment in time and money that will be around with me for another 20 years or more.

So now, I have to just make up my mind on choosing between buying a short term truck or a long term truck.

Ya, tell me. I spent almost a year deciding on what new pick-up to buy. I kept looking at the used market as it was hard to let go of the $34k for a new one even tho my plan is to keep it for 30yrs if it don't fall apart.

In that class of truck it would be hard to beat the used market for your use. I know the used pick-up just about dried up here in Janurary and selection is terrible now. It did the same thing last year.

If going a MDT atleast your set-up cost wouldn't be prohibitive as your already commerical.

Ya I thought that new ZF sounded kinda low but there other part prices seamed in line with what everyone else was charging but on the low end. You here of very few people setting up the PTO for use.

Good luck truck hunting!

T_Bone

I don't have a problem with the PSD because they usually hold up decent but the tranny is the biggest problem. I'm not fond of auto-trans but he said they actually have little problems with them compared to the ZF's. Going on cost alone, getting the ZF rebuilt as opposed to buy a ford rebuilt auto trans, hands down the auto wins out. He said it's not uncommon to have the auto tranny's outlast the PSD even when running loaded all the time. Making me think.....more.....

I may just take my chances with the auto trans if I can find one with the PSD in front of it. If not, I think I'm going to seriously consider the chevy gas drives. Less money and can do both engine and tranny rebuild for the cost of the ZF rebuild alone. The diesel would be nice but it's not necessary for my use.

You need to look at this website. I'm not sure if it's the one I was talking about but $1500.

I'll keep looking!

T_Bone

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