R-12, vs. R134A refrigerant..........

Brad

I converted my '88 F150 last summer, and loved the results, COLD AIR!

My AC system developed a leak, and I took it to a Ford dealer. They charged $100+ to recharge and put some leak detector in the system, said to come by "anytime" after a few days and they would check to the leak for free. I took it back a few days later and they told me I had to have an appointment and pay to have it checked. The charge held the rest of the season, by spring it was gone.

After driving two years with no AC the wife picked up the $35 kit, plus some extra cans. I also used the 134A oil, and the sealer/conditioner stuff. Last week when it hit 90 here in KY the old AC felt pretty good.

I have an opportunity to get older commercial coolers free and had wanted to incorporate a refrigerator into my next kitchen, re-using the commercial doors and compressor. I'd about given up with the licensing and gas situation but this thread sparked my interest again.

Although some of the posts are not 100% correct they do contain valuable content.

I would like to here what was on the test when you took your Refrigerant license test?

T_Bone

The exam consists of approximately 50 multiple choice questions of an environmental nature, reporting accidental or intentional release of a halocarbon, recovery requirements, fines, etc. There are no refrigeration specific technical questions. The study time and complexity of the exam is just about the same as the written test for a driver�s license. Having successfully passed the exam and certified as a �Universal Technician� has the same impact re your technical expertise in the refrigerating industry as passing the written driver�s test has re your driving skills.

To lawfully work with halocarbon refrigerants you are required be certified. If you are certified, you can even call it a �Refrigeration License� and cite it as proof of your expertise while providing advice in this thread: Go to Wally World for your conversion kit. While you�re there pickup some oil additive to �rejuvenate� your engine, transmission, etc. Don�t forget the Stop Leak and Fix a Flat. Who knows when you may have to �fix� you radiator or one of the tires. Whatever floats your boat.

Anyway if anyone cares, the following federal agency info is on the back of my card R.E.P.A., INC. 7525-M Connelley Drive, Hanover, MD 21076, Ph 1-800-435-3331. The card is dated 08/31/94 so I don�t know if this info is still valid. Regards, Joe

Now thats a post someone can learn from!

Thanks,
T_Bone

None of my 1980's era cars are currently running R12, all have been converted to R134, without problems. Nor have any of the other vehicles I and others I know have converted had any problems, except for reduced cooling capacity.

The need to draw out the old compressor oil and replace it is a misnomer. While it is true the oils are incompatable, you are not mixing it in the crankcase of the compressor. As long as the compressor seals are functional, no problem has been encountered by me in evacuating an R12 system and recharging it with R134.

The closest to a problem I do run into with R134 is it escaping through the rubber of older hoses. While the R12 oil left on the surface of the hoses does help in retention, it does escape, requiring a recharging every year or two with a single can of R134. On those that had the hoses replaced, no recharging has been required.

I've converted hundreds of systems and serviced the same automobiles for years after with minimal problems. One thing to keep in mind is that if the vehicle needs to be recharged then the original refrigerant has "leaked" out. Repairs must be made to the system first by a qualified technician. If any technician that has access to R-12 simply recharges the system then he is ultimatley in violation of the law because he is knowingly injecting refrigerant in a faulty system.

Testing and repairing the system is where the cost is involved. The conversion kit is very cheap as it only involves some "O" rings and larger nipples for the R-134A hook-up.

The corosion that everyone is talking about is not caused by the oils but in the early days, the belief was that all mineral oil had to be removed to a trace which required cleaning the system. It was discovered later that the cleaning process is what was causing the corosion. They found that simply vacuming down the system and seperating out the oil for measurement of volume removed and replacing with the appropriate amount of oil for the R-134A taking into account the amount needed if any of the components were replaced that there was no problem with compatibility.

I could go on and on but I've exceeded my 2 cent limit...

Finally we saved the money by putting in a sunroof. My wife loves the sunroof and since it never gets all that hot here in New England its not really that big a problem.
Remember too that your car isn't a real powerhouse in the best of times, it'll be a dog with the A/C on. Don't get me wrong I think they're very cool cars. I almost bought one to commute with too, a convertable! I bet you didn't even know they made them! (Conversion done by a company in FL.)

BTW, the window crank also helps me get out of the truck. I need to roll down the window so I can reach out and unlatch the door from outside since the inside door latch is busted.

On the other hand, R12 is a lot stickier -- I don't know if you can get it anywhere without a license (there were a couple western states that were ignoring EPA on this but I don't know if they still are).

I got the car for the daily commute, to school, for my last few years of college..... ..GAS MILEAGE!! Tell you what, the chicks sure give me wierd look, and laughs, when I unwrap myself from behind the steering wheel when I get out. Probably because I'm 6'5", and have a Kenworth bumpersticker on the back.

Thanks again.
Brad

There several new refrigerants that are a direct replacement for R12, R22, R134A, R500

R414B is all "oil" type compatible for R12

R416A is also all "oil" compatible and supposed to match R12 thermodynamic and physical properties

There is also some other replacement refrigerants but they require some costly cylinder deposits, $125/cyl

Keep in mind that I've never used any of these so called direct replacments so your on your own.
I can not tell you if you need a refrigeration license to buy them. Never hurts to ask tho!

T_Bone