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Welder Damaged?

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micromike

04-01-2002 19:45:38




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My son borrowed my Century 145 amp mig welder which has gas or fluxcore wire capacity to install a spiral staircase for a guy he works for. It typically runs from a 40 amp breaker. They for some reason tired to wire it directly into 200amp breaker with an extension cord made of heavy welding cable. The welder wouldn't work. They then wired it to a 30 amp breaker and the welder worked but wouldn't weld correctly...bubbles in the weld, won't penetrate well. They are using 030 wire and gas.

Could they have damaged the welder by hooking it up to the 200 amp breaker?

Also, I just used the welder this past weekend with flux core wire and reverse polarity and it worked fine. Does he need to use straight polarity with gas and wire? Or reverse polarity? Thanks in advance for any help.

Micromike

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Mike

04-06-2002 18:02:12




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 Re: Welder Damaged? in reply to micromike, 04-01-2002 19:45:38  
Got my welder back today. Thanks for all the suggestions. I especially like the one about buying two of everything and giving him one. I should have started doing that years ago!

I'm not sure what the problem was for them. They said they couldn't get it to penetrate at all. I tested it with flux core wire, ran two one inch beads an inch apart welding quarter inch steel to half inch steel on one side only and couldn't break it with a small sledge hammer. (I'd say penetration isn't the problem!)

The Centry has now been formaly added to the "will not lend" list of tools.

Mike

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Brad

04-06-2002 19:10:42




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 Re: Re: Welder Damaged? in reply to Mike, 04-06-2002 18:02:12  
Sounds like they didn't have the polarity set correctly if they were messing with the gmaw setup. At the very least, they didn't know what they were doing, but it sounds like you do.

Brad



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Brad

04-04-2002 13:27:05




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 Re: Welder Damaged? in reply to micromike, 04-01-2002 19:45:38  
It could be the polarity being set backwards, but I would have to agree with another post, in that the shielding gas was being blown away. Another possibility is that if you are using an argon mix gas, you can experience "bad argon gas" when your tank gets low. I have had this experience in regards to an argon mix supply that gets too low in my tank.

Bad welding technique is another possibility, as is welding dirty metal, paint, rust, dirt..... and improper welding technique, or not having the right flow setting for the shielding gas.

Brad

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Robbman

04-02-2002 09:18:15




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 Re: Welder Damaged? in reply to micromike, 04-01-2002 19:45:38  
A trick I learned in the welding biz was to use the following to help with the Straght, reverse terms used with welding. Think of the government and REPresentatives and SENators. REP (reverse electrode positive) and SEN (Straight electrode negative) I t helped me out for many years. The electrode being negative will cause bubbles because the heat is not being generated in the wire and penetration will be lacking. Also when using gas shielding, stay out of drafts. It blows the shielding effects of the gas away and causes porosity due to nitrogen from the air. Hope this helps.

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DumOleBob

04-02-2002 07:47:29




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 Re: Welder Damaged? in reply to micromike, 04-01-2002 19:45:38  
Most problems in & around my shop begin with the words, "My son borrowed my...."

You are far better off buying two of everything & giving him one!

Second, my advice is, "Do whatever Mark Kw sez".



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Mike W

04-01-2002 20:21:34




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 Re: Welder Damaged? in reply to micromike, 04-01-2002 19:45:38  
Electrode positive(reverse polarity) is used with gas. Flux core is electrode negative(straight). Are you sure about the polarity with the flux core?

The 200 amp breaker wouldn't hurt your welder. I assume both breakers are connected to 220 volts. Sounds like the 200 amp setup wasn't getting voltage to the welder

Was the gas flowing when they did get it working?



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Micromike

04-01-2002 20:36:14




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 Re: Re: Welder Damaged? in reply to Mike W, 04-01-2002 20:21:34  
Thanks for the quick response Mike. Glad to hear the welder isn't damaged. Didn't seem like a smart thing for them to do but I don't know much beyond wiring a switch.

I asked about the gas and yes, he says it is working. I don'have the welder here so I can't be sure about the polarity I used. I use the welder pretty infrequently and thought I used reverse polarity with the flux core. I could be wrong. At any rate, he can try switching the polarity tomorrow. I guess I should write the correct polarity down and tape it under the hood! Thanks again.

Mike

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Mark Kw

04-02-2002 04:18:09




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 Re: Re: Re: Welder Damaged? in reply to Micromike, 04-01-2002 20:36:14  
I don't like the terms "strait" & "reverse" because it causes too much confusion. For wire the runs with a gas, be it solid or a flux core dual shield, the electrode lead from the drive/contactor assembly should be connected to the + (positive) weld output terminal ... a/k/a "electrode positive". For self shielding flux core (wire that does not require a gas) the electrode should be connected to the - (negative) weld output terminal ... a/k/a "electrode negative".

Circuit breakers and fuses are two different animals. Circuit breakers are intended to protect only for short circuit faults to prevent wire fires. Fuses, if properly sized and selected for the application are better at protecting the equipment from over current damages. Without getting into the whole debate over wiring, breakers and fuses here, you can damage equipment by not properly protecting it. You also run the risk of seriously injuring or killing people because of improperly connected equipment.

What you described seems more like a problem with improperly operated equipment or improper technique of the process rather than a problem with the equipment. However, the equipment can still be damaged and may no longer be safe to operate. My advice is to have your machine checked out by an approved repair facility for the machine. As for the staircase, for liability reasons alone, these things should be done only by properly trained and insured professionals. Legally, you can be in for more than you barganed for with this one. It's your machine and you are indirectly resposible for damages caused by it or because of it.

A similar incident happened here not too long ago. A guy lent his brother-in-law a welder to install a steel fire escape on a private dwelling. The bro-in-law was not a welder and had no liability insurance for welding. Sometime after the fire escape was installed, it collapsed. Luckily only one person was injured and not severely but the dwelling and some vehicles were damaged in the process. The dwelling owners insurance company went after the bro-in-law and the owner of the welder and they are still paying for the damages out of their pockets. I know it sounds stupid but assumption of liability goes back a long way. I deal with this sort of stuff every day and have to watch everything I do so I don't get myself in a ringer over it. Just a little FYI so you don't get screwed for trying to be helpful.

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