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Welding questions

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Frank

03-31-2002 18:17:40




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I'm just now attempting to learn to weld. I went out this afternoon with a box of 1/8inch 6011 rods and a few bits of scrap metal. After several tries I could start an arc and keep it going. I don't know what amperage I need to set the welder on. I tried several settings but still haven't had anything that looked like a good weld. Lots of spatter and the bead ( if you could call it that) was very uneven. After it cooled I broke one apart with my bare hands. Another I dropped on the floor and it came apart. I know there is an art to this and I have alot to learn. I'll keep practicing but I need some ideas on where to start. Thanks in advance.

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Trucker

04-03-2002 21:19:20




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 Re: Welding questions in reply to Frank, 03-31-2002 18:17:40  
Well for 1/8 6011 try about 90 amps.Get some 1/2 thick metal and weld on it untill you can get the arc going good.After you get the hang of that start welding in a weave pattern,up and down.Try and keep it the same width.Really a 6011 is a push rod,not a drag rod,so that may be part of why your weld isnt working.Every welding machine is a little different,you might do better at 80 amps than 90,or even 70,or 100.It depends on you and how you like it.By push rod I mean you push the rod into the puddle,to get the hang of welding you might want to get some 7024.Its a drag rod,production rod,whatever you call it you drag it along.Its easy to weld on flat surfaces,once you get it lit you just watch right behind the puddle for a line across the puddle,maybe 1/2 inch back or more from the arc,when you have it straight across the weld being deposited you are going at the right speed.Then you drag the rod at this speed untill you stop and it should look like a machine welded it.If everything is right,speed and heat the slag will peel up as it cools so you need to chip very little.With your 6011 you have a lot of spatter,if you drag it,it doesnt penetrate right.Get 2 pieces of metal,stand them up,start at the bottom and weld with the 6011pushing the rod into the weld as you go up the metal.It wont look very good but it will hold a lot if its burned into the metal untill its red on the other side.With the 7024 at 1/8 in diameter you need about 110 to 140 amps.At least thats what it is on my old Lincoln,yours may be different.

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Russ

04-03-2002 18:24:33




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 Re: Welding questions in reply to Frank, 03-31-2002 18:17:40  
Hi Frank, I believe 6011 was developed for AC machines, so your alright there. As was mentioned, 1 amp per thousandth in diameter is a good place to start, but don`t be afraid to change the settings up or down, sometimes significantly, to get the proper weld. For example, I have found that I run 1/8 6011 at ~150 amps on Miller 8 packs that I`ve run, but on my Lincoln Square Wave machine, the same rod(brand and diameter) runs at about 105 amps. Don`t misconstrue what I just said as any kind of plug for Lincoln over Miller, both are excellent machines for their given purpose. When welding with 6011, it`s my understanding that you want to weave the rod back and forth to achieve a "stack of dimes" appearance in the bead, in other words, strike the arc and let it form a nice round puddle, then move the rod ahead of the puddle by about one rod diameter until the puddle freezes, then "whip" it back to within 1/16" to 3/32" of the trailing edge of the frozen pool and hold until you get another nice round puddle, about two rod diameters. Continue until the weld is complete. You also want to remember to keep a very short arc on 6011, with a long arc it will easily burn through. 6010 and 6011 are commonly used like this to peirce holes in metal. 6011, and 6010 have very good penetration and are commonly used for root passes. They are also good for farm welding because they are fast freeze, all position rods and will burn through an incredible amount of garbage, including rust and paint, as long as you`ve got a good ground. Hope I added something meaningful here, Russ

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FRANK

04-01-2002 19:27:23




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 Re: Welding questions in reply to Frank, 03-31-2002 18:17:40  
I DO WELD FOR A LIVING IF YOU ARE USING 1/8 6011 ROD SET THE MACHINE ON 125 AMP AND IF YOU HAVE A FIND SETTING SET THAT ABOUT 1/2 WAY 1 TO 10 ON 5 CHECK TO SEE IF YOU A SWITCH FOR STRAIGHT OR REV. POLARITY WITH 6011 ROD USE STRAIGHT POLARITY MAKE A GOOD GROUND WITH THE GROUND CLAMP NOW START TO WELD. SCRATCH YOUR ROD WITH THE METAL THAT YOUR GOING TO WELD, KEEP YOUR ROD VERT. TO YOUR WORK, NOW MOVE YOUR TIP OF ROD IN A LITTLE CIRCLE, NOW THE METAL IS MELTING MOVE YOUR ROD FORWARD A LITTLE AT A TIME AFTER SOME TIME YOU WILL GET IT IF YOU HAVE ANY MORE QUESTIONS E- MAIL ME,WILL BE GLAD TO HELP.

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Frank

04-02-2002 17:28:44




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 Re: Re: Welding questions in reply to FRANK, 04-01-2002 19:27:23  
Thanks for the advice. It's just an AC only machine though. I'll try all the suggestions and practice, practice, practice, I've got lots of scrap metal to use. Catch ya' later
Frank



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ed

04-03-2002 09:04:39




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 Re: Re: Re: Welding questions in reply to Frank, 04-02-2002 17:28:44  
Want to build a dc converter for my ac welder. I would like to rectify the output of my ac machine to provide full dc output. would like a schematic with rectifier and diode size information.
Or information and schematic for single diodes at half wave rectification to at least provide half the rated output of my ac



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Frank

04-01-2002 18:54:50




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 Re: Welding questions in reply to Frank, 03-31-2002 18:17:40  
I want to thank all of you for the advice. I see I didn't have the amperage set high enough. I started at 70 amps and I think the highest i went was 85. I'll try it at 100 the next time. I know It'll take practice to be able to control the rod movement. You've been a big help. Now the fun begins.
Frank



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BB

04-01-2002 10:14:42




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 Re: Welding questions in reply to Frank, 03-31-2002 18:17:40  
To learn:
Best Choice-sign up for a welding class at a local college or vocational school.
Second best-find a skilled welder willing to give you some lessons.
Third best-get a good book on welding and practice, practice, practice.
Get a good book no matter which approach you take. A good understanding of the process is essential to good welding.



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Ken

04-01-2002 06:17:25




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 Re: Welding questions in reply to Frank, 03-31-2002 18:17:40  
Tom's recommendation of 100 amps to start with is good advice. The 6011 rod requires that you weave it to get a good weld. Go back and forth as you move the puddle down the metal you're welding. Hold as close an arc as you can without destroying material. My Dad started me welding at about 6 or 7 years-old (42 now). It's a lot easier for me to show someone than to just tell them. There is a bit of 'art' to it and you'll have to develop a bit of a feel for it. I also agree with the recommendation that you get a good book. A textbook for a welding class would be a good reference. E-mail me with questions if you want and I'll do my best to answer them. Best Wishes, Ken

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llamas

04-01-2002 05:51:36




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 Re: Welding questions in reply to Frank, 03-31-2002 18:17:40  
If the welds were brittle and fractured easily, most likely you were running way too cold - not enough heat, you were melting the rod onto the surface, but not melting the base metal and getting good admixture between the base metal and the weld metal. As others say, the process actually produces a "puddle" of molten metal at the tip of the rod, and this "puddle" consists of both base metal and weld metal.

A starting rule of thumb is "one amp of current for each thou of rod". So, for example, a 3/32 rod (which is 0.9375" or 93.75 thousandths of an inch) would be looking for a current around about 90-100 amps. That's a starting point - only experience will tell you when a rod needs more heat or less. But the manufacturer of the rod will also publish data for it which will give you an excellent starting point.

Current is controlled by more than just the switch on the box, it's also controlled by the length of the arc. The longer you hold the arc, the higher the current - the more heat, but also the more violent the action of metal transfer from the rod to the work. This leads to lots of splatter and a stringy and poorly-adhering weld bead. Practice drawing the rod slowly and evenly, and "feeding" it down to the joint as it is consumed, to maintain an even arc length. Most beginners draw the rod way too quickly along the joint, and also "stab" at the joint rather than smoothly adjusting position to compensate as the rod is consumed.

You can teach yourself to stick-weld but it's hard. Much easier to find a skilled welder and get an hour of instruction, and follow up with a good book - I recommend "New Lessons in Arc Welding" published by Lincoln Electric at www.lincolnelectric.com.

HTH GLWI

llater,

llamas

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F14

04-01-2002 04:02:47




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 Re: Welding questions in reply to Frank, 03-31-2002 18:17:40  
I am by no definition of the word a welder, but I can stick things together. One thing I have discovered is that CLEAN joints are important for good welds.



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Tom

03-31-2002 19:01:16




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 Re: Welding questions in reply to Frank, 03-31-2002 18:17:40  
For that size rod you could probably start somewhere around 100 amps, depends on the thickness of the steel and the welder. It sounds like you were not using enough heat or were going too fast or both. You want to see a puddle under the rod in the arc and move on after you see it building up behind you. Move the rod from side to side as you move along, maybe 1/16 each way. Try more or less heat. Move faster or slower until you begin to see a bead.

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Al

03-31-2002 18:53:29




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 Re: Welding questions in reply to Frank, 03-31-2002 18:17:40  
I had my first attempt at welding yesterday at a friends. He put a piece if 1/8" thick x 4"x10" scrap down and told me to watch for a few minutes. He dragged the weld rod along the surface on about a 30 degree angle for about 1" then he changed the heat setting on the welder as he said it was to hot, then he started again and dragged about three inches and made a neat weld - then he let me try it . The arc started quite easily and for the first 1/2 I was to far from the surface, then I was a bit to close after that I realized I could tell a bit by the size of the arc (brightness) how far or close I was from the surface. Next I paid attention as to how fast I dragged the rod. This gave me a bit of an idea of how the arc worked. Then he clamped a small piece off angle o the 1/8" scaped and weld along one edge of that then let me do the other side. He made smooth nice welds and mine were poor but I was amazed how easy the arc worked and I know I need to practice for control, etc. Just thought I would share my first welding experiece with you and I hope you get some good advice here. Also, if you can find a good guy near where you live maybe he would give you a ten minute lesson.

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Jake

04-01-2002 08:25:40




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 Re: Re: Welding questions in reply to Al, 03-31-2002 18:53:29  
One of the best aids that you can invest in and mage you a better welder is an auto-datk hood, you will see the rod contact and follow the bead as its being laid. Th lens darkens in 1/25000 of a second and prices have fallen to where they are affordable to have for infrequent welders. Make a world of difference.



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Wayne Wiseman

04-01-2002 18:03:57




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 Re: Re: Re: Welding questions in reply to Jake, 04-01-2002 08:25:40  
I agree with Jake. I have a Lincoln AC welder and a Miller 135 MIG. Attended a night course at local tech school and also a course at night from local high school. I never felt like I was at a point I needed to be at welding. Then, I was at a car show in Evansville, IN and talked with a experience welder about the auto darkening helmet. I purchased the helmet for $160. and now I'm feel much more comfortable with my welding. Money well spent. Wayne

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