Propane Torch

I would not count on oxy/propane for any welding, at least on steel...not hot enough. See Tim's thread above.

Rod

I do not want to start any argument.
I did not mean to imply any limitations
on what each fuel gas is capable of doing.
Any one of the combinations can get material
hot. Some penetrate faster and hold
temperatures through a material for the
desired application. Propane is great
for welding and cutting applications even
at its lower temp. I use both natural gas
and propane, personally.

Tim, Ohio

For LP you must use only type "T" hose. Anchor brand is the best I have found in the type T as it does not get hard in cold temps and will withstand a great deal of abuse too. Standard twin lead rubber hose I belive is type S and is for use with acet only. LP will make this hose soft and fail in a short time.

You can use most acet fuel gas regulators but it is best to go with the Harris brand designed for LP. There is little to any cost difference between LP torches, regulators and hoses as oposed to those for acet. The cost difference comes later in fuel use and cost. You will get as much cutting done with 9 bucks (20 pound cylinder) of LP as you will from around $350 to $400 of acet.

I have to warn you right up front, using LP is not easy. It takes time to learn the proper flame settings or you'll waste your time and O2. The flame setting with acet is a bright blue fleather, LP uses a very light blue flame looking more like a highly oxidizing flame in acet. It took me a long time to master setting the LP flame but once you get used to it, you'll never mess with that nasty, dirty, slow cutting, high cost acet again. Blocked and popping cutting tips become a thing of the past.

Cut rates using LP and the Harris type "F" torch (with proper flame settings) are about 3 to 5 times faster than the best acet torch you can find. Kerf width with LP is about 2/3 that of acet and LP will scarf much easier than acet since you can feather the pressure with the cut handle. Scarfing is also done with a standard cutting tip which means you don't waste time changing tips to fit applications. Brazing can aslo be done with a cutting tip if you watch what you are doing and take so time to adjust to the the larger flame and higher heat.

Best part of the Harris LP torch is the rose budd tips. They screw right onto the cutting handle where your cutting tip retainer nut is attached. A quick change operation and a massive increase in BTU output as opposed to the same size acet rose budd.

Mark, is this true? That's a heck of a difference in cost! Just wanted to make sure the numbers were correct.

Thanks!

With propane you don't have that tank rental issue, wich saves a bunch right there.

--->Paul

You don't consume a lot of LP gas for cutting. Most common problem with using LP is improper equipment and improper equipment operation. Using LP with the right torch makes all the difference. Like I said above, set the flame right and use the proper tecnique and LP is your best friend.

As for cold weather operation, I have used my torches in below zero temps with no problems. You do get some icing on the bottles and an occasional frozen/iced regulator but not very common unless using a high volume rose budd.

I don't use that much anymore, but still worth a try. I usually run out of ox before act.

I have an old big victor torch. I think I read where I could just change the tip and use propane. Is that correct? What pressure does the regulator need to be set at? Thanks

I only use the 282 cubic feet O2 cylinders and 20 or 30 pound LP's so I can't comment on smaller tanks or their abilities.

I'm not up on Smith equipment but as of last I checked, Harris is the only mfg to produce a torch solely designed for LP/Mapp, the type F. The Victor adapter tips do NOT work worth a snot, all they do is waste time, money and gas without doing much work.

As for more consumption of O2, this is only because of improper flame adjustment or improper equipment. LP is far more efficient than acet for cutting, light or heavy steel. Pre-heat flame remains the same size be it a #1 tip or a #5 tip. In acet, the bigger the tip, the more fuel you use, in LP, the bigger the tip only gives you a bigger blow hole. I use only #2 NTT tips and have easily cut everything from thin sheet steel up to 10" thick without doing anything but adding a bit more O2 pressure to keep a clean kurf. Boring out the blow hole on a #2 tip to 1/8" and running 90 psi on the O2, I have readily cut 18" thick steel without a problem.

As far as cutting speed goes, I was called in to help cut a 45,000 gallon tank in half lengthwise so it could be scrapped. The other guy is also an independent welder who I have worked with before and is good. He started at the end of one side and I started on the other. Both working at the same time on the same 3/8" thick wall tank, I cut my side and end and met him 2/3 of the way down his side. Constant fouling of the tip from the rusted steel slowed his cutting to a crawl while my LP kept right on going.

If you hate grinding as much as I do, a clean LP tip will make a cut nearly as clean as a plasma cutter and slag comes off with a swipe of a hammer not pounding that is required when acet is used.

Before someone brings up slow pre-heating with LP, once again, this is only because of improper equipment or improper flame adjustment. There is a slight difference in pre-heat times, about 1 to 2 seconds longer with LP but this is more than made up for with the increased cutting speed.

for cutting propane has it all over acetylene

the only thing i disagree with in the above

note is , i have both victor and airco tip for

propane and both cut very well. i always use

propane for heavy cutting ,much better. i also

use some acetylene , for welding cast iron and

for metal spray.

george

Now, back to the point. Way back when, I used only acet torches for everything just like everyone else. I have a nice Victor set I used then and tried the LP tip on it. The performance was less than desired and I went back to using acet. A year or so later, I was working a job with a guy who was using the Harris type F torch with LP. I asked why and he said, "here, give it a try...this is how you set the flame...this is how you work it...and so forth." I was very impressed with it but never followed up on it.

A few months later, a friend gave me a harris type F because he only used acet as well. I decided to try it for myself. It did take a while to get used to it and find all the little tricks you can do with LP you can't do with acet. Having used LP for years now, picking up an acet torch for cutting is like working with Fred Flinstone and Barney Rubble.

I'm not here to "sell" anyone on LP or Harris. I speak my piece in a manner as "if you are serious about using LP, then here is what you need to get, do, ect." I have a large acet cylinder in my shop right now. Matter of fact, it's the same one that has been here for about 6 years because it sees very little use. I don't recall even putting a regulator on it in over three years.

One day I had a small brazing job to do. Nothing special, just putting a few carbide tips on a cutter for my milling machine. I did not feel like wasting time un-packing and hooking up the acet torches for this small job so I grabbed for the Harris already hooked to the LP. A few practice runs later I brazed the tips on and went back to work on the money making project. Since then, I have used the LP for all the occasional brazing jobs as well as silver soldering.

Cast iron is done with stick electrodes. Stainless is done with TIG, MIG or stick. Alum is done with MIG or TIG. Thus there is little need for acet at all for me. I have looked into using a spray torch for build-up work but the little bit I do and the applications, the cost does not justify the need. The few build-up jobs I do are done mostly with short circuit or spray MIG because it is fast and much more cost effective.

I said before, I have not even attempted to weld with LP because I have no need for it. I invested around $60,000 in welding machines for that purpose. Granted the average DIY'er is not about to consider dropping $20K for an Areowave just to have laying around for the occasional tig job on alum. This is how I make my living and is why I need to use the fastest and most cost effective means to get the work done. For me to waste a couple hours doing a weld joint with torch is insane considering I could do the same weld with one of the electric machines in a couple minutes.

I can probably count on one hand the number of braze jobs I did last year and using both hands cover the number of silver solder jobs. The plasma cutter does all the shop cutting to 1.25" thick like butter and faster than the torch so why bother lighting up a flame when I can pull a trigger? For the DIY'er who is looking for an all around tool that will do welding as well, then acet is the best choice because time is not a concern.

The majority of my cutting is what most would consider "heavy duty". The way one looks at things is directly porportional to what they see every day. I look at a 100,000 excavator and to me it's not much more than a Tonka toy yet to someone else, it is a "giant" machine. In the same note, my working with steel in excess of 1" thick is common place. The other apsect is that when someone who does not do this for a living looks at a welding job, they size it up in number of rods, I size it up in pounds of weld laid down. Time is money for me and I can't waste time playing with toys or I don't eat. This is why I like LP and a Harris type F for cutting. It's faster and cleaner than any acet torch made by anyone. You want "proof" of this, you're welcome to come and watch me work all you want.

I'm not looking to stir the pot here or say that LP can replace acet for everything but it works fine for brazing and soldering and cuts faster. It may not be the best choice for everyone or every application and I don't want this to sound that way. For me, LP works better and faster than anything else and is far more cost effective all around. On rusted, crapped up steel or nice clean new steel, you don't stand a chance keeping up with the cutting speed of LP.

You brought up some very good points about what works for one type of business orperation that not effective for another. The guys need to remember that there wouldn't be all this different equipment available if no one were using it and most of the time it's busniess that gives us the opertunity to use a new process or look at completing the job faster than we ever did before.

Every welding/cutting process has it's place. Not every process works exactly the same for every task at hand.

To accuse Mark of being in the LP sales department is not a good idea nor approiate. One theres no way he would benefit from such on this board. You can also tell that Mark doesn't sell anything by the context of his posts!

I think you guys need to quit trying to find fault with someone whos willing to give up some time to help teach someone. Not everyone is willing to give that info or time freely.

T_Bone