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Using air compressor instead of oxygen bottle for cutting.

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Scott (MO)

02-18-2002 19:41:01




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I'm a tool & die guy and have been accustomed to the oxy - acetylene torch for a number of years. But, today at work a fellow employee raised the question about using an air compressor and hooking it to the torch in place of the oxygen bottle. I tried to think of different reasons why it wouldn't work but I couldn't think of any. Any of you guys/gals know if it would work or not? Scott

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Trucker

02-21-2002 20:40:31




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 Re: using air compressor instead of oxygen bottle for cutting. in reply to Scott (MO), 02-18-2002 19:41:01  
In the early 70's I worked at Havens Steel in Kansas City as a welder.They had a huge compressor,so big it had its own room on the building.I dont know what else they did to the air besides compress it,but thats what it did,compress air for torches,a burning table,air tools,everything in the shop.It cost a lot of money and they used knap gas for fuel on the torches.Maybe it took nitrogen out of the compressed air somehow,I dont know,but it worked.I saw some people that were very good with a torch,but I never saw anybody that could cut with pure oxygen,Might be possible if the metal was glowing about ready to drop,but I would have to see that before I would believe it.Its a mystery to me as how the places that fill bottles get pure oxygen?They have to first make the oxygen and compress it into a tank.I kind of think its air but its just compressed a lot more than an air compresser can do or maybe they filter out the nitrogen?An old welder told me that years ago they used some kind of rocks instead of acetalene like the miners used in the lights on their helmets.Carbide I think is what its called.Seems like if they went from rocks to acetalene to knap gas to propane to gasoline for fuel,surely they can figure out a way to make compressed air work too if it will.

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G Taylor distillation to separate gases

02-24-2002 15:53:47




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 Re: Re: using air compressor instead of oxygen bottle for cutting. in reply to Trucker, 02-21-2002 20:40:31  
The distillation process is used to extract O2 from primarily N2,argon & CO2. Air is compressed to several thousand psi & cooled. Then when pressure is dropped by metering it through an orifice the temp drops. This is done in several stages & in a combined cycle application to lower gases to their liquid or solid temps. As you have seen, room temp CO2 in a fire extinguisher drops to approx - 100F when discharged. Some missionary hospitals have their own O2 enriching equipment that produce a usable grade of breathing air.

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darren o sullivan

11-20-2002 12:26:26




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 Re: Re: Re: using air compressor instead of oxygen bottle for cutting. in reply to G Taylor distillation to separate gases, 02-24-2002 15:53:47  
I am a leaving cert student and i have to make working model of an air compresser for my leaving cert project for engineering.
i am curious of how this air compresser works and im wondering could give mesome information and pictures of how this machine works, Yours sincerely, Darren O Sullivan.



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Scott(MO)

02-19-2002 03:18:27




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 Re: using air compressor instead of oxygen bottle for cutting. in reply to Scott (MO), 02-18-2002 19:41:01  
Thanks for the info guys. The other guy and myself talked about the oxygen/ nitrogen ratio being a problem yesterday but , neither one of us knew how much the atmosphere contained. Now I know! Thanks again! Scott



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Joe Evans

02-18-2002 20:10:24




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 Re: using air compressor instead of oxygen bottle for cutting. in reply to Scott (MO), 02-18-2002 19:41:01  
It won't work. 1) the oxy-acetylene cutting process is achieved by pre-heating the steel to be cut then starting the literal burning of the steel by introducing almost pure oxygen into the melt point--combustion is supported by the O2. 2) Since the atmosphere is mainly nitrogen there is not enough O2 to support combustion so the nitrogen-laden compressed air will snuff out the oxy-ac burning process, and 3)don't you think a standard air compressor arrangement with acetylene would be universally used if it worked instead of hassling with the cost and labor of O2 tanks? Now this being said, compressed air is used in the plasma arc process and in some other exothermic cutting processes where electric is the source for most of the cutting energy. I dont specifically know why compressed air works in these cases other than to say that the cutting arc generates vastly greater temperatures than acetylene can provide. The arc temperatures are in the tens of thousands degrees F and at these temperatures, compressed air (about 70% N and 20% O2) will help release additional thermal energy. Steve the Weld Rod Man: care to weigh in on this?

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Don

02-19-2002 06:47:49




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 Re: Re: using air compressor instead of oxygen bottle for cutting. in reply to Joe Evans, 02-18-2002 20:10:24  
Plasma cutters melt the metal with the current, and the compressed air just blows the melted metal away from the area being cut.



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Steve U.S. Alloys

02-19-2002 05:47:48




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 Re: Re: using air compressor instead of oxygen bottle for cutting. in reply to Joe Evans, 02-18-2002 20:10:24  
Guess I can, Joe:
Arc cutting processes use the arc to melt the metal and air to blow it away as you have stated. Hence, no oxidation is required, allowing these processes to cut materials that the OFC process will not.
Although plasma exists in all arc processes, the PAC machine differs in that the air is ionized and actually conducts electricity in its plasma state. The use of different gases changes the characteristics of the process as well. Also, the temp range of the PAC system runs between 18,000°F to 25,000°F.

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Steve U.S. Alloys

02-19-2002 05:56:30




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 Re: Re: Re: using air compressor instead of oxygen bottle for cutting. in reply to Steve U.S. Alloys, 02-19-2002 05:47:48  
Please allow me to clarify something I have said. All arc processes create plasma gases. The plasma is the point where the ionization takes place. PAC systems uniquely channel it through an orifice to increase the pressure. That may make a bit more sense.



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bbott

02-18-2002 19:59:23




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 Re: using air compressor instead of oxygen bottle for cutting. in reply to Scott (MO), 02-18-2002 19:41:01  
There is not enough Oxygen in 'regular' air to get the steel to burn. (The atmosphere is about 21% Oxygen at sea level.)

A cutting torch works by using the oxy-acetylene flame to get the steel hot enough to melt, then you start the cutting jet of pure oxygen. It oxidizes the steel.. literally burns its way through, not blasting or blowing the metal out like an air-arc.

I saw a demo once by a traveling sales rep for Victor.. he could turn the acetylene off after getting a cut started and cut his name out in beautiful script from a piece of plate.. using oxygen only. Real talent and hours of practice.

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gene b

02-19-2002 17:42:17




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 Re: Re: using air compressor instead of oxygen bottle for cutting. in reply to bbott, 02-18-2002 19:59:23  
so turning off the ace and just running oxygen cut in metal what else was he trying to sell or did his oxygen burn special



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bbott

02-19-2002 19:44:18




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 Re: Re: Re: using air compressor instead of oxygen bottle for cutting. in reply to gene b, 02-19-2002 17:42:17  
He was just showing off his skill...

It was impressive, he had the same level of skill in his hands as brain surgeon... Just used different tools.

bbott



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Franz

02-18-2002 19:58:14




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 Re: using air compressor instead of oxygen bottle for cutting. in reply to Scott (MO), 02-18-2002 19:41:01  
The biggest reason it won't work well is that air is 70% Nitrogen. In a cutting situation, there won't be enough Oxygen to burn the liquified Iron, witch is the primary fuel in a cut.
I have seen systems where a compressor was used to boost Natural Gas pressure for a cutting torch, but the only place I've seen compressed air used for cutting is in ArcAir and Plazma.



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