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Oxy-Acetylene torch safety question

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Weldingfool

02-07-2002 22:32:37




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I have a oxy-acety. set up that I have not yet used, but getting ready to get the bottles filled and start playing around with it.
My question is how many of you oxy-acety. users have the reverse flow check valves & the flash back arrestors? Should these be a necessity? The torch set up I bought does not have either, I don't think ?? It is a Harris Calorific Port-a-torch. My dad has used an old torch for years that does not have these, and has never had any problems, but was he just lucky ?? I don't know, I guess that's why I'm asking. Thanks for your comments.

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Weldingfool Thanks guys for the safety info.

02-08-2002 17:25:18




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 Re: Oxy-Acetylene torch safety question in reply to Weldingfool, 02-07-2002 22:32:37  
Thanks guys, some very good safety info from all of you.



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Steve U.S. Alloys

02-08-2002 05:59:58




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 Re: Oxy-Acetylene torch safety question in reply to Weldingfool, 02-07-2002 22:32:37  
The torch safety classes we teach in the factories dictates that an C2H2 torch is a device that is most often overlooked in regard to plant safety. It is most likely the most dangerous piece of equipment in your shop if abused.

To meet the utmost in safety requirements, you should have flashback valves installed at both ends of the O2 and the C2H2 hose connections. There is a small arrow that indicates direction of flow stamped into the valve. Keep in mind that flashback valves only stop reverse flow of the explosive gas mixture during a backfire. They DO NOT stop a flame. To do that you need to install flame arrestors. You can buy flame arrestors with flashback valves built-in.

We also equip our customers with quick release chucks ( similar to an air chuck) that have flashback valves built-in. Handy if you frequently swap out torches. (Cutting torch to welding torch or powder torch)

Victor makes a Vangaurd series that has flame arrestors and flashback valves built into the handle.

You can check to see if you have flashback valves in your handle by peering into the end of the handle where the hose connections are. You would see a small flat plate that is spring mounted on the blind side. It just slams shut during a 'pop' or backfire.

The after market flashback valves look like a small nut with an arrow on it. These don't last a lifetime either. You should replace them at some point.

There is too much additional info to list here regarding handling of the cylinders and so forth. It takes me two hours to go over this in a safety seminar. Perhaps I'll prepare a torch safety page for our web site at some point.

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Don

02-08-2002 17:56:04




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 Re: Re: Oxy-Acetylene torch safety question in reply to Steve U.S. Alloys, 02-08-2002 05:59:58  
There can not be enough safty devices applied to a Oxy-Acy torch setup. Nor can a person be to careful when using a torch.Several years ago I had the Oxy regulator explode on me and I spent several hours in the hospital ER having brass and glass removed from my upper arm and shoulder.



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Muray Dunn

02-08-2002 04:31:47




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 Re: Oxy-Acetylene torch safety question in reply to Weldingfool, 02-07-2002 22:32:37  
Two basic safety rules with a torch: ALWAYS turn our flammable gas first and NEVER use any oil on a regulator or any other part ot the oxygen equipment.



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paul

02-08-2002 05:22:23




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 Re: Re: Oxy-Acetylene torch safety question in reply to Muray Dunn, 02-08-2002 04:31:47  
3. Always keep the Acetylene tank vertical - or give it lots of time to settle again if you stored it horizontal.

4. Don't draw more gas out of the Acetylene tank that it is rated for - whatever volume that is?

(I'm a dummy on these safty issues as well, but this stuff is contained within a resin in the tank, and really bad things happen if these 2 rules aren't followed. - I run oxy-propane myself.)

--->Paul

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F14 my 2�

02-08-2002 04:25:19




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 Re: Oxy-Acetylene torch safety question in reply to Weldingfool, 02-07-2002 22:32:37  
The safety devices in question are a very minor expense, and have no noticable effect on welding/cutting capacity.

Why take the chance?



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Franz

02-07-2002 23:28:22




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 Re: Oxy-Acetylene torch safety question in reply to Weldingfool, 02-07-2002 22:32:37  
Well, I think you answer your own question. You have no experience, so you're the guy most apt to get yourself into trouble fast. Flashback preventers were made for people just like that.
Your lack of experience dictates you need all the safety devices you can have working to protect you from yourself.



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Weldingfool

02-08-2002 00:58:42




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 Re: Re: Oxy-Acetylene torch safety question in reply to Franz, 02-07-2002 23:28:22  
Well actually I'm not all that unexperienced, having grown up on the farm using the old oxy-acety. did a fair amount of cutting, heating and welding, and in good old high school shop class, but I sure dont remember hearing anything about these safety devices then, but this was 20 plus years ago! Thought maybe they might be incorporated into the newer torch I bought,kind of like the seat belt comes with the car! Haven't even got the new torch set up out of the plastic yet to look. I'll probaby get them no doubt though, if they are not already on there.

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cd

02-13-2002 19:15:59




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 Re: Re: Re: Oxy-Acetylene torch safety question in reply to Weldingfool, 02-08-2002 00:58:42  
we run one torch set with Mapp and Oxy and the other with Acetalyne and Oxy. I like the acetalyne for some jobs better but the Mapp is safer, my grandfather told me of this story and why they quite using acetalyne in his fabrication/repair shop, one day he and some of his guys were standing there talking and this one guy was a little ways across the shop using the torch, like every few seconds or minutes they would hear a loud pop, after awhile they went to figure it out, here the acetalyne bottle had a leak in the bottom and gas was accumulating in the base, then when the guy with the torch would have a metal sprawl drop and roll under it, the bottle would lift an inch off the floor, that day they quite using acetalyne and switched to Mapp it burns a little colder but i like life too.

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T_Bone

02-08-2002 02:17:03




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 Re: Re: Re: Oxy-Acetylene torch safety question in reply to Weldingfool, 02-08-2002 00:58:42  
I agree with Franz as he gave you excellant advice.

The flame arresters came out in the 70's because of accidents. I've seen three types but there could be more. One is style is located built-in on the mixing body just ahead of of the gas valves. They'll have a large plug that screws into the mixing body.

Another style attachs to the mixing body hose couplers before the gas hoses are attached then the gas hoses attach to the flame arrester. There made of brass.

The other style attachs on the gas regulators output flow nipple then the hose attaches to the flame arrester. There also made of brass.

T_Bone

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PCC-AL

02-08-2002 03:59:03




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Oxy-Acetylene torch safety question in reply to T_Bone, 02-08-2002 02:17:03  
Hi T Bone,
I am in about the same situation as Weldingfool. I picked up an old torch set cheap and have been using it on a limited basis. Mostly, just cutting a few things that I couldn't cut with a hacksaw. I have 25ft hose and get on the outside of the shop with the tanks inside. I purposely try to work as far away from the tanks as possible. I have heard of "backburn" and don't really know what takes place, but understand that it is real bad. I realize my lack of knowledge in this area so I take every extra precaution that I can. I will appreciate some more info on backburn, and specifically, what happens and results from the absence of flame arresters. Any special safety advice will be much appreciated. Thanks.

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Mark Kw

02-08-2002 05:41:20




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Oxy-Acetylene torch safety question in reply to PCC-AL, 02-08-2002 03:59:03  
"Back burn" or "Burn back" or "flash back" mean that fire is allowed to enter either the torch body or hoses. Acet is very bad about this as it will readily burn in the hose and can self ignite inside the hose and or regulators at pressures above 15 psig.

Personally, I use LP for 100% of my cutting work. It's safer, cheaper, cleaner and faster than acet if used properly with the right equipment. Many will beg to differ on this and I don't want to get into a battle over fuel gases here.

I have both flow direction check valves and flash back arrestors on all my torch equipment. Like T_Bone said, the old ones went between the regulator and hoses or mixing vlaves and torch tip. New ones, both flame arrestors and check valves are made to screw in-line with the hoses and have the appropriate thread for gas and O2.

Flame arrestors will run about 15-20 bucks a set and check valves around 12-18 bucks a set depending on size, type and mfg. Personally, I use Western brand as they are commonly available here. "Flame arrestors" and "check valves" are two different devices. Flame arrestors have a fusible link that will melt when exposed to a per-determined heat causing the unit to stop gas flow. These are one-time use items, they melt shut, they get replaced. "Check valves" unless damaged by a fire or physically will work over and over again. They are nothing more than a spring loaded valve, just like those used in water lines, that limit flow to only one direction.

Suggested set up for use is as follows: Flame arrestor is attached to hose thread at regulator. Flow check valve is attached to hose connection on flame arrestor. Hose is attached to hose connection on check valve. Second check valve is then attached to hose connection on torch. Second flame arrestor is attached to check valve at torch, then the hose is attached to the flame arrestor. Duplicate for both fuel and O2 connections.

The reason for using both is to double the safety value of the equipment. If the torch "pops" and back pressure tries to push either fuel and or O2 back into the hoses, the check valves should function to stop the flow fast enough to snuff the fire inside the torch handle. If the check valves fail to snuff the fire, the flame arrestor should burn shut closing the flow of fuel/O2. If a sufficient amount of pressure is developed at the torch which causes the failure of the first combination of check valve and flame arrestor allowing flame to enter the hoses, the second combination of check valve and flame arrestor should prevent fire from entering the tanks causing a serious explosion.

If you have a flash back or hose fire, you should remove all equipment from service and have it checked and tested by an approved repair/testing facility. With the low cost of most smaller torch equipment, sometimes the most economical choice is to just replace it with new.

Don't take chances with safety. The small price to pay for a couple sets of check valves and flame arrestors is nothing compared to the price you will pay in being seriously burned or killed.

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Thanks for the info Mark -PCC-AL

02-08-2002 06:30:54




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Oxy-Acetylene torch safety question in reply to Mark Kw, 02-08-2002 05:41:20  
x



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