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Choices for constructing outbuilding

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Douglas Stockma

01-27-2002 05:03:48




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Greetings:

I am planning to build a storage building this year for my tractors and implements. It will be about 24x40x8 ft high. I know that any size building will be too small – but this is the size I am choosing. I am exploring stick frame, prefab metal building, or pole barn type building. I want the longest lasting building at the lowest cost - with low cost being a more important criteria than extremely long life. I will of course get all required permits.

I would appreciate the group's collective wisdom on the options.

Foundation
For either stick frame or metal prefab, the foundation will most likely be 12 inch diameter metal reinforced concrete piers every 4 feet with 6x6 pressure treated timbers bolted to the concrete piers. As I crunch the dollar amounts, this seems the cheapest alternative for a foundation. The floor will be 6 mil plastic with 0 and 1 crushed stone on top.

Stick Frame
If I use 2x4 framing with T-11 siding this appears to be the cheapest option. I can do most of the work myself which helps keep the cost down. Is there something I am overlooking?

Prefab metal buildings
For the size mentioned, they seem to run in the $4,000-$5,000 range for the building itself. What are people's experience with the quality of the product and the ease that one person could erect a prefab metal structure?

Pole building
Because of the sheer weight of the main support members, I would have to hire this out. The cost seems to be about $7,000-$8,000 for our area. The one concern I have is rotting of the main supports that are underground. I live in a fairly wet area so is it possible for the main poles to rot in 20-30 years?

Thanks for any guidance you wise sages may offer.

Douglas Stockman
Penfield, NY

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Roger V.

01-31-2002 09:49:58




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 Re: Choices for constructing outbuilding in reply to Douglas Stockman, 01-27-2002 05:03:48  
I realize cost is a factor for everyone but if you can borrow, steal, whatever build the biggest you can. By the time I built one several years ago,it was too small. It cost me more to add on because I had an original outside wall that was now an inside wall I didn't need. This time I built a 42x80 and even my wife says we should have built it 20' longer! I suppose we would have said the same thing even if we originally built it 100' long. Oh well..... ... Roger V.

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Douglas Stockman

01-31-2002 03:01:33




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 Re: Choices for constructing outbuilding in reply to Douglas Stockman, 01-27-2002 05:03:48  
Thanks to everyone for such great information! I sure do love this web site. I will listen to the advise about making the sidewalls 10 feet high. It does make sense now that I think about it. I was figuring with a Farmall A, a Cub, and the hopes for an IH utility tractor, I would never need anything higher than 7.25 ft. But hey, every time I see a Super M or a 400 in the paper, I start thinking maybe I should get one of those :).

Sorry to take so long to respond. Work and home life keep me way too busy. I will email those who suggested they had plans to share.

Thanks again. Once I get it built, I will probably post photos.

Douglas Stockman
Penfield, NY

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paul

01-28-2002 19:16:40




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 Re: Choices for constructing outbuilding in reply to Douglas Stockman, 01-27-2002 05:03:48  
Please consider going taller than 8'. That is not tall enough for you to sit on most tractors & get in the shed! I understand about keeping costs down, but another 2' will be the _best_ money you spend... Bigger in the other dimentions is always nice, but you will cuss yourself for years on an 8' hieght.

--->Paul



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JK-NY

01-28-2002 09:24:13




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 Re: Choices for constructing outbuilding in reply to Douglas Stockman, 01-27-2002 05:03:48  

Hi Doug- I built a 30x48 pole barn last year. I live just soth of Syracuse NYY so we would be in a similar climate . I would avoid the pre fab metal buildngs as the footing requirements are expensive in northern climates ans I have seen several of these fail if the foundation was skimped on . You should check with your local building inspector on this but I went through it and know what the NYS uniform code calls for. You will find that the cost of a pole barn is the cheapest per sq ft. when everything is considered. I agree with other posts go 10' or even 12' (mine is 12' to get wagonsin) . If you plan on using an overhead door you will lose some height so consider that too. If you want a floor in the whole thing a stick built garage type building is somethisng to investigate. I put up a gaarage here a couple years ago that I got for taking down on floating slab with an extended roof line on one side to give an extra bay . this extension is supported by poles pole barn style . This has also worked out well.Asfar as labor both therse jobs were done by me alone with a little help from my 75 yr old dad( who is still some of the best help around for jobs like this) I used a backhoe to set the pole barn trusses and had a couple other friends help that day, we had them all up by2pm with most of the purlins on (and just finished ahead of a big t thunderstorm!) I dealt with 84 lumber, they were reasonable and very helpful, if i had to return somethig etc., they had no problems with it. Good luck and hope this helps. John

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ShepFL

01-27-2002 20:36:47




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 Re: Choices for constructing outbuilding in reply to Douglas Stockman, 01-27-2002 05:03:48  
third party image

Hi Doug & (Paul from my previous post to Cody) -

I am nearly finished with a pre-fab steel shop as I type. It is 30x60x14 with 12' clear sidewalls. I subcontracted the concrete work. It is 6" thick with hugh footers, fiber concrete with wire mesh reinforcement, also rebar in the footers. Overkill but according to local code since Hurricane Andrew tore up S. FL.

I will be adding two 10'H x 12W roll up doors. I planned the door height 2' above my backhoe, and width was determined by NOT wanting to back a trailer with equipment into the shop in the dark with no assistance. I felt the extra width was cheap insurance to prevent damage.

This spring I am planning to add either a 20' or 30' lean straight off the shop roof to 10' telephone poles as outside support to maintain backhoe clearance under the lean-to. You can also see the extra 10' of slab - this is provisions for stoop in back to relax with some KY sippin' whiskey (Jim Beam Black) from time to time, fuel storage, and deer cleaning. When?? I don't know!!

Bldg is from Millenium Steel out of Tallahassee, FL. It is a kit and a PITA at that!! In work for nearly 2 yrs. entirely by myself consuming every spare minute I have. Total I have about $13K tied up in the bldg. - that is slab, bldg, doors and incidental costs i.e. fill dirt, extra cables, redheads, consumables etc.

Since I have had mine I would suggest a pre-fab kit but one that has majority of fittings WELDED. Then construction is MUCH easier only having to attach & connect girts and purlins. Steel Building Systems out of Ada, GA makes a dam fine bldg - should I ever get another that is who I'm going with. JMHO!! Butler Bldgs. are nice but out of my price range.

If this is not an option then I would strongly consider a pole barn. But for me price was about the same. Selling point for me was no longer having to waller around in the mud, no termite dmg, minimal weather deterioration (FL = Flat, HOT, Muggy & Buggy)! I had to save a few yrs. to get this bldg. but in the end it will be worth it. I did not want to build a smaller one for fear of having to expand real soon or redo entirely - capital is to scarce around here!!

Anyone can drop me an email if you would like photocopies of my dwgs. or to discuss items to watch out for in a kit building or this entire ADVENTURE!!! Will be glad when this is DONE!!
ShepFL

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Cody N.E.Tex

01-27-2002 21:26:18




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 Re: Re: Choices for constructing outbuilding in reply to ShepFL, 01-27-2002 20:36:47  
Looking good ! My slab is scheduled to be poured Tuesday , expect to get my structural steel delivered first part of the week , then work on it as time allows . I finally decided to go weld-up .



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BB

01-29-2002 04:53:42




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 Re: Re: Re: Choices for constructing outbuilding in reply to Cody N.E.Tex, 01-27-2002 21:26:18  
Cody- Keep us posted on your progress. I put up a bolt-up 2 yrs ago. I did not feel comfortable with my welding skills to try a weldup. I could just see it crashing down around me. I am curious in what all you have to do to put up a weldup. How much cutting, fitting, welding, etc. Do all the structural members come cut to size with all the proper angles?



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Cody

01-30-2002 06:15:55




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Choices for constructing outbuilding in reply to BB, 01-29-2002 04:53:42  
Most everything has to be cut , angles etc. , but the 'C' channels I got were 25' lengths so that will help a lot because my shop is 50' long using 3 trusses . Got the concrete poured yesterday , thought I had a pretty solid gravel driveway ....WRONG !! there is something about seeing a loaded concrete truck buried to the axles that kinda makes you nervous , the first one made it in OK but he got off the drive and everything went downhill from there , had a wrecker there to pull in the remaining trucks , with me trying to fill in the ruts with my frontend loader between loads , it was an experience to say the least .But the slab is poured and the structural steel is setting there so the rest will be done as time and weather permits.

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ShepFL

01-27-2002 21:32:43




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 Re: Re: Re: Choices for constructing outbuilding in reply to Cody N.E.Tex, 01-27-2002 21:26:18  
Cody -
Thanks and best of luck to ya! I am not a skilled carpenter and as such this shop gave me some fits due to unknown form movement during the pour. Did you got my previous email about slab work?

This is actually an older pic. Haven't taken any in awhile - been to busy finishing. Hoping to finish out roof next weekend. Then it is hang the doors and we are OPEN for business.



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evetS

01-27-2002 12:18:32




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 Re: Choices for constructing outbuilding in reply to Douglas Stockman, 01-27-2002 05:03:48  
Doug, I built the same size bldg. a couple years ago. One of the best investments we purchased. A friend & I put it up. Started w/a mono slab, 16"x18" footings w/4 #4's continous, compacted sand,w/#10mil visq. for moisture barrier & rein.wire thruout. Placed anchor bolts every 4'. (I called in some of my markers to help pour the slab). Used 2x4 fram., & purchased the trusses,(wet stamp included). T-11 siding also. Either end has a 16' roll-up insul. garage door. You can drive right thru if ya want. The total cost was just under 15,000.00. I love it. But like previous comments "IT AINT BIG ENOUGH"!! You would think 960sq.ft. should do it...NOT! She took the first 1/2 (2-cars) and I got the rest. So my next bldg. is for ME. I hate keeping the ol'57 TO-35 outside. She dont complain much though, starts eveytime! Hey good luck bud. Whatever you decide Im sure you w/enjoy. Steve

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Kurt

01-27-2002 10:37:52




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 Re: Choices for constructing outbuilding in reply to Douglas Stockman, 01-27-2002 05:03:48  
You may want to use Tyvek plastic wrap under the siding to keep the breeze down in the inside.



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kb

01-27-2002 10:09:46




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 Re: Choices for constructing outbuilding in reply to Douglas Stockman, 01-27-2002 05:03:48  
I built a garage last summer, 24 X 30 X 8' tall. My total investment was just over $3,000. I poored concrete peers and set 6X6 oak beams on them on 8' centers. The beams sit atop concrete footings, and are held in place by 1/2" rebar that was put in place prior to pooring the footings, and sticks up into each of the 6X6 posts about 4 inches. I used three runs of oak 2X6 to run about 8" above grade, one run in the middle and one at the top. I also used the same 2X6 oak stock and braced the corners. I purchased 24' trusses from the local 84 Lumber yard, and placed them on 4' centers. I ran strips of standard 2X4 stock on 2' center on the top of the trusses, and attached metal. The local metal dealer sells galvalum, painted metal, etc. I used all white, at $33 a square (100 sq feet), and used it for both the roof and the sidewalls.

I chose the trusses because there wasn't a huge difference in cost, versus having to spend the extra time trying to save a few dollars. The trusses were on sale for about $40 each. All the building kits the local places like Lowe's, 84 and Wolohan Lumber sells have trusses on 4' centers, when using a metal roof. I live in Kentucky, so snow loads aren't a huge factor. If you live farther north the trusses would have to be adjusted for load demands.

I used a local sawmill to supply the oak, so I got it a lot cheaper than the same stuff in pressure treated would run, an 8' 6X6 was $7.20.

My Dad, who was 65 at the time, helped me with all of the building. My nephew did help poor the concrete floor, and he and another nephew helped set the trusses. This kept costs down to just materials, which makes a huge difference in price.

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Bill

01-27-2002 09:07:38




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 Re: Choices for constructing outbuilding in reply to Douglas Stockman, 01-27-2002 05:03:48  
For sure no matter how you do it GO 10 foot.If I had gone 8 like planed Id never get my sickle bar mower in there in the upright position,oh and the corn picker I just bought.YOu never know what you be into next..so think big
BTW It not even built and I can tell you its too small!!!!!lol Bill



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Sam

01-27-2002 07:33:03




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 Re: Choices for constructing outbuilding in reply to Douglas Stockman, 01-27-2002 05:03:48  
My own experienc says you should go at least 10ft high instead of 8ft.



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RayP(MI)

01-27-2002 11:58:30




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 Re: Re: Choices for constructing outbuilding in reply to Sam , 01-27-2002 07:33:03  
And a little wider than 24 feet would be good too. I recently built a polebarn which had outside dimensions of 24 feet (before final siding) Garage door faces across that dimennsion. A beautiful pickup truck became available - cab and a half and long box... Wouldn't fit in the building! Had to pass it up!



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ken

01-27-2002 08:26:00




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 Re: Re: Choices for constructing outbuilding in reply to Sam , 01-27-2002 07:33:03  
I AM ALSO IN THE PROCESS OF BUILDING AN OUT BUILDING,I'M USING OLD TELEPHONE POLES IN THE CONSTRUCTION OF A POLE BUILDING YOU CANNOT BEAT THESE 50 YEARS LATER THEY THEY WILL STILL LOOK NEW. ALSO GO 10' HIGH



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charles ethridge

01-27-2002 07:27:10




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 Re: Choices for constructing outbuilding in reply to Douglas Stockman, 01-27-2002 05:03:48  
douglas, have been in the building bussines for over 30 yr, think about setting 4x4 treated poles on 10 cevters and running 2x4 cross purlings at the bottom ,center and top plate, make up trussess and then cover the frame with r-panel in 26.gag. or even 28.gag. galvlumn or painted r-panel. the r- panel in my area runs about 1.00 a foot,,3x12= 12.00 a sheet. if you want i will draw you up a set of blue prints and material list so you can get it priced out. i just finnished a boat shed and it is 16x36x 16foot side walls for under 1000.00 and have a 16x36 side shed on it with 7foot side wall.will send pic if it would help and i built it by my self. will help all i can charles

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A. Zamora

03-01-2002 13:59:09




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 Re: Re: Choices for constructing outbuilding in reply to charles ethridge, 01-27-2002 07:27:10  
I have a concrete pad, 20X30 I need a garage approx. 20x20, 8'walls, garage door on one end
36" entry door on the opposite end. Your help would be greatly appreciated. Any ideas that may
be helpful would be really appreciated.

Thank You



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PCC-AL

01-27-2002 06:38:43




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 Re: Choices for constructing outbuilding in reply to Douglas Stockman, 01-27-2002 05:03:48  
Hi Douglas,
There were a number of posts recently on pole barns that you can check out in the archives.
I used to work for a prefab metal building company. I will not say that one man can't erect a prefab metal building, but it will be a task beyond most men. You would have to rent the right equipment to handle the metal.
As Steve mentioned, old telephone poles make great supports and will last many years.
I built my pole barn entirely from red cedar as I had plenty of it growing on the farm. It is over 30 years old and still holding up well. It is a true pole barn as none of the poles are sawed. The floor is dirt. About the only expense was time and nails. Good luck.

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ShepFL

01-27-2002 20:43:55




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 Re: Re: Choices for constructing outbuilding in reply to PCC-AL, 01-27-2002 06:38:43  
AMEN TO THAT ONE!!!!

"I will not say that one man can't erect a prefab metal building, but it will be a task beyond most men." Sales guy told me 5 guys could put my shop in 5 days. HA!! While I was skeptical I expected 1 month. I had no idea of the challenges and the variables.

Would I do it again? YES! Would I do it differently MOST DEFINITELY & I would have the Sales Rep. right beside me humping a$$holes and elbows to show me how it can be done in 5 days!

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Steve

01-27-2002 06:01:45




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 Re: Choices for constructing outbuilding in reply to Douglas Stockman, 01-27-2002 05:03:48  
I built a pole barn about 30 years ago, one side open to south. We get quite a bit of snow here in Maine but sun melts what blows in a day or so.I was able to get some old telephone poles for nothing. Had local telephone contractor install poles.They look as good now as when installed. I think I might still have plans for building if you want a copy.
Steve



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