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Stationary Engines Discussion Forum

starter rotation?

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Marc

08-19-2003 04:45:31




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I have a VG4D Wisconsin engine on a chipmore chipper. The starter turns but the bendix drive does not engage. I have removed the starter, cleaned it and tried it on the bench with a battery and it still does the same thing.
Nothing is visibly wrong with the Bendix drive and what I don't understand is how the bendix is suppose to move forward when the starter is rotating the way it does. It turns clockwise when looking from the front. Could the starter be rotating the wrong way? If so why would it suddenly do that? Is there something I'm not getting? These starters are very hard to find because they are discontinued.

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John McPherson

08-19-2003 11:18:24




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 Re: starter rotation? in reply to Marc, 08-19-2003 04:45:31  
Most of the small starters rely upon centrifugal force, and rotational momentum to move the drive forward into engagement, be it just a gear, or a bendix.

Does the bendix move easily? or does it take some effort to move it. there should be a light spring to push it back, but if the spring were not there, it should be able to move by it's own weight as you flip it end over end.



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Marc

08-19-2003 12:25:42




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 Re: Re: starter rotation? in reply to John McPherson, 08-19-2003 11:18:24  
It does move easily and once into position for engagement it stops with a spring. I haven't tried the end over end test but I will tonight. When viewed from the front, the starter rotates CW. The drive also must rotate CW to go forward. Shouldn't it be the other way around? If the drive must rotate CW to go forward, shouldn't the starter rotate CCW to give the drive rotational momentum? By the way, it's a Folo-thru bendix with some kind of clutch at the base to prevent it from forcing the starter shaft I guess as it moves back to its initial position.
Thanks.

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John McPherson

08-21-2003 18:13:08




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 Re: Re: Re: starter rotation? in reply to Marc, 08-19-2003 12:25:42  
Does your starter have a clutch type bendix on the gear? If so, it is possible that the rollers are gummed up and will not "hold". A temporary fix is to flush out the bendix with starting ether to see if that remedies the situation. If it does, the motor can be used for a while yet, but the starter bendix needs to be replaced.

Otherwise following through on intial line of thought-

Are the teeth intact on the flywheel too? Are they worn to any depth? Sometimes the teeth may be worn just enough to miss engaging with the starter.

As for things being counter intuitive, remember that the motor will turn opposite the direction of the engine, and that the engine is "trying not to turn" (An adaptation of one of Newton's law's of motion without the math), so it will seem that the starter is needing to turn opposite the direction that it actually does.

The way every starter motor is put together (at least the ones I have encountered), will assemble only one way, and will only rotate one direction regardless of the battery polarity applied.

If the starter was working with the engine, and now it is not, suspect the flywheel, or the starter bendix.

Depending on how the starter ring gear is attached to the flywheel, it may actually have broken loose, and may get pushed out of the way by the starter gear, or got pushed out of the way.

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Marc

08-22-2003 04:24:03




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: starter rotation? in reply to John McPherson, 08-21-2003 18:13:08  
What I was describing is the starter behaviour on the bench away from the engine. There doesn't seem to be any broken teeth on the engine flywheel.
The drive "unscrews" forward in the same direction as the starter is turning which seems impossible. That's why I'm saying it should turn the other way.
Actually, right now, the starter doesn't even turn anymore. There seems to be some kind of short. I brought it to a starter shop and the guy confirmed what I was saying: the starter should have turned CCW.
I will let you know what happened next week after they look at it.

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Marc

08-28-2003 04:15:04




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: starter rotation? in reply to Marc, 08-22-2003 04:24:03  
I got the starter back. It was rebuilt with some minor parts change like brushes, bushings and insulation and was painted black. It looks like a new starter. There was a short which might have caused it to turn the wrong way.(?)
Anyway, it was worth the 93$cdn since these starters are impossible to find.



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John McPherson

09-06-2003 09:21:17




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: starter rotation? in reply to Marc, 08-28-2003 04:15:04  
It is possible that a brush wore down enough to short across a few commutator bars, and another brush was kicked out of contact with the commutator, but those two circumstances together is very rare- But that is what would have to happen to get a starter to spin backward- with a lot less power too.

Considering exchange rates, the price is right in with the going rates I usually see.



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