Welcome! Please use the navigational links to explore our website.
PartsASAP LogoCompany Logo (800) 853-2651

Shop Now

   Allis Chalmers Case Farmall IH Ford 8N,9N,2N Ford
   Ferguson John Deere Massey Ferguson Minn. Moline Oliver

Attention Forum Users: On the 28th of December 2023 at 9:00am Central Time, we will be taking the forums down for maintenance while we prepare the new forums for your use. Please click here for more information.

Restoration & Repair Tips Board

welding a hydraulic cylinder

Welcome Guest, Log in or Register
Author 
Loon Yi

11-13-2004 16:33:24




Report to Moderator

Is it advisable to weld a lengthwise crack in an old JD cylinder on a sicklebar mower? If so, what procedure is recommended, pre, post heat, etc. TIA. I know new cylinders are available, but this is the original. Can this repair be done safely? I have welded quite a bit, but nothing special.




[Log in to Reply]   [No Email]
Loon Yi

11-16-2004 08:19:11




Report to Moderator
 Re: welding a hydraulic cylinder in reply to Loon Yi, 11-13-2004 16:33:24  
Thanks for all the info. I think it will be replaced by a new one. Tbone: thanks for the gunsmithing book lead.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
MPK

11-15-2004 17:04:16




Report to Moderator
 Re: welding a hydraulic cylinder in reply to Loon Yi, 11-13-2004 16:33:24  
Don't weld it. It will just crack again if you get too much pressure in it again. They were not designed for the high pressures they had later.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
T_Bone

11-15-2004 03:44:31




Report to Moderator
 Re: welding a hydraulic cylinder in reply to Loon Yi, 11-13-2004 16:33:24  
Hi Loon Yi,

I strongly suggest that you do NOT make the repair for several reasons.

The most compelling reason would be the inside bore will distort after being welded thus would be needed line bored to restore too the correct bore diameter.

There is a reason why the tube split where it did. You first need to find the cause of the split before a method of repair (or if) can be applied.

If you still feel like you would like to save the old cylinder, I suggest you buy a book called: Advance Gunsmithing, W.F. Vickery, out of print but easy to find online with a google search.

Vickery explains advanced metal working in very simple terms thats very easy to learn from. He explains methods to accomplish very complicated tasks from extremely simple tooling that includes tempering and hardening metals for tubing under extreme pressures.

If after studying Vickery's book you would still like to make the repair, post again and we'll discuss which method would be best.

T_Bone

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Jon H

11-15-2004 17:37:29




Report to Moderator
 Re: welding a hydraulic cylinder in reply to T_Bone, 11-15-2004 03:44:31  
Hi T bone,
Those old JD cylinders have a cast in passage that runs from the base to the rod end of the cylinder so both hydraulic hoses can be connected at the base end. This cast on oil passage is quite thin cast iron,and is what splits when over pressured. I do not think the crack extends deep enough to involve the actual cylinder bore,but I have never disassembled one to check for sure.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Jon H

11-14-2004 15:58:00




Report to Moderator
 Re: welding a hydraulic cylinder in reply to Loon Yi, 11-13-2004 16:33:24  
If it is the old cylinders used on the JD 2 cyl tractors,it was designed for much less pressure than a modern tractor hydraulic system can exert on it. It was real common around here to blow them up when subjected to sitting in the hot sun when the hoses were uncoupled at a cooler temp,or subjected to a modern tractors 22-3000 psi. very few still exist in this area for that very reason.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
txblu

11-15-2004 06:38:57




Report to Moderator
 Re: welding a hydraulic cylinder in reply to Jon H, 11-14-2004 15:58:00  
You know, it never ceases to amaze me the tidbits of good info you can pick up around here.

I never liked to leave my stuff in the weather cause it just wore it out fast but forgot to realize the added benefit of (protection from) the closed hydraulic circuit that you refer to which, as mentioned, can be catastrophic when heated.

Thanks for the thread,

Mark



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Jon H

11-15-2004 17:53:09




Report to Moderator
 Re: welding a hydraulic cylinder in reply to txblu, 11-15-2004 06:38:57  
Most all tractors have pressure relief valves built into the hydraulic system between hydraulic valve and coupler to relieve excess pressure caused by heat expansion of the oil. When the impliment hoses are disconnected and the coupler tips lock off the system, there is no expansion pressure relief, I have seen even steel tube cylinders blow the end cap off when parked in the hot sun.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Bob

11-14-2004 08:33:12




Report to Moderator
 Re: welding a hydraulic cylinder in reply to Loon Yi, 11-13-2004 16:33:24  
If it is an OLD Deere cylinder, is it old enough to be the cast iron style which has the clevis base bolted on?

If it is cast iron, cast iron is porous, and retains oil. The entrapped oil makes it difficult to weld.

If it can be thoroughly pre-heated (or even baked for a couple of hours in a hot oven), hopefully most of the oil will burn off, and make for a more successfull weld.

These cast iron cylinders have been known to crack from the expansion of the hydraulic oil in them when they sit unused in the HOT sun.

Unless having the "correct" old-style cylinder is important to you, I would replace it with a modern steel hydraulic cylinder. The cost ($50.00 to $100.00) probably wouldn't be much more than having the old one professionally welded.

www . surpluscenter . com

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
txblu

11-14-2004 07:13:24




Report to Moderator
 Re: welding a hydraulic cylinder in reply to Loon Yi, 11-13-2004 16:33:24  
Can't hurt anything to try. If it failed I think the worst thing would be fluid would prise the split back open squirting fluid out and giving you a warning to shut it off (fluid). Unlike something gas filled that would push to the breaking point and then explode. If you didn't get it all welded you would have pin hole squirts you'd have to stop.
You might cut a V grove in the split and if it's a high tensile steel cylinder use a 7018 on DC or go and ask your welding jobber. Build up several layers cleaning up as you go.

Only problem I'd see is distortion of the inner surface which would either keep the ram from functioning properly, or cut the seal on the ram.

Course if it only cuts the seal every year or so, and seals are cheap, what the heck. Would make a winter project.

Sickle bar mower isn't that heavy so you are not asking the cylinder to do that much. Even though your system has 2000 or so psig available, you don't necessarily use it. All you have to do is open the valve (spool) and let in enough fluid (pressure) to overcome the weight to be moved and that's that.

Say the task is to move 800 # and you have a 3" dia cylinder. It would only take 114 psig of hydraulic fluid to provide 800# of force acting against the load.

Mark

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
old

11-13-2004 19:27:20




Report to Moderator
 Re: welding a hydraulic cylinder in reply to Loon Yi, 11-13-2004 16:33:24  
My self I wouldn't try it, theres a lot of preasure on them



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
[Options]  [Printer Friendly]  [Posting Help]  [Return to Forum]   [Log in to Reply]

Hop to:


TRACTOR PARTS TRACTOR MANUALS
We sell tractor parts!  We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today. [ About Us ]

Home  |  Forums


Copyright © 1997-2023 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters

Website Accessibility Policy