Welcome! Please use the navigational links to explore our website.
PartsASAP LogoCompany Logo (800) 853-2651

Shop Now

   Allis Chalmers Case Farmall IH Ford 8N,9N,2N Ford
   Ferguson John Deere Massey Ferguson Minn. Moline Oliver

Attention Forum Users: On the 28th of December 2023 at 9:00am Central Time, we will be taking the forums down for maintenance while we prepare the new forums for your use. Please click here for more information.

Restoration & Repair Tips Board

Welding Tips for a lousy welder?

Welcome Guest, Log in or Register
Author 
Matt_In_Michigan

03-04-2008 19:05:55




Report to Moderator

My '61 Farmall 560 has a cracked exhaust manifold. It's cracked right where the exhaust pipe connects to the manifold. That whole area needs a good bead to seal it back up. I'm running a MAC Tools WS1300 MIG welder. I've ground around the whole crack, and welded it and ground it off 3 times. Am I missing something here? Or am I really that lousy a welder? Do I need a special wire for the manifold? Is it cast iron?

Any tips or help will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Matt

[Log in to Reply]   [No Email]
gitrib

03-11-2008 10:56:58




Report to Moderator
 Re: Welding Tips for a lousy welder? in reply to Matt_In_Michigan, 03-04-2008 19:05:55  
A mig welder will not work with any wire. Use a stick welder with small sized Ni-rod. groove the crack. Using a rose bud heating tip on your acytlene tanks, do not use welding tips, uniformly heat the entire manifold. Make sure and keep hot, may need a helper. Run a small short bead. Have a good sharp pointed peening hammer and peen. This removes the tension on the weld. May tack it to keep it aligned. KEEP IT HOT AND PEEN it after every run. it is slow work you cannot hurry. Make sure and KEEP IT HOT. have a pile of DRY sand when you are done bury it in the pile of DRY sand and forget till the next day. It is dificut but gives a lot of pride when you get done. GOOD LUCK

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
comtcwby

03-10-2008 08:52:42




Report to Moderator
 Re: Welding Tips for a lousy welder? in reply to Matt_In_Michigan, 03-04-2008 19:05:55  
If you are welding with a mig welder, switch to stainless steel wire. Preat the manifold or anything cast with either a torch or put it in the bottom of a 55 gal. drum with a light amount of gas to warm it up. A propane torch will work ok in small areas and for short welds. The reason that the area keeps cracking out is that the cast is cooling at a faster rate than your weld will. Stainless or nickle is the only rods that you should use to weld cast iron unless you are using a torch, then brazing will work. If you chose to use the mig welder, you will want a Argon based sheilding gas to eliminate and porosity in your welds. You dont need the cast to turn cherry red during preheat but all you need is to have it about 300 degrees. Maybe your wife will allow you to use her oven... I have done that before as well. Good luck.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
circus

03-07-2008 03:04:17




Report to Moderator
 Re: Welding Tips for a lousy welder? in reply to Matt_In_Michigan, 03-04-2008 19:05:55  
Prior comments are valid. No matter how you try you'll have to preheat the manifold. Hot. Hot. Hot.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
george md

03-05-2008 21:26:49




Report to Moderator
 Re: Welding Tips for a lousy welder? in reply to Matt_In_Michigan, 03-04-2008 19:05:55  
third party image

Matt,

When you get tired of having more failures than successes with arc weld of any type , grab your o/a torch , some cast iron in stick form , a can of flux ,and learn to properly weld cast. Brazing is a reasonably good repair , but works best on items that don't change temperature much and manifolds don't fit that description very well. Your best repair is with o/a and cast rod . Below are 2 pictures , before and after repair with o/a . There is also a link to many more pictures of that repair .

The third image is a 1929 waukesha manifold, and yes it is repairable.

george

third party image

Showing back of the broken heater box

third party image

assembled box , back side

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
jose bagge

03-05-2008 18:52:26




Report to Moderator
 Re: Welding Tips for a lousy welder? in reply to Matt_In_Michigan, 03-04-2008 19:05:55  
I've always brazed cast manifolds...



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
moseed

03-05-2008 09:04:05




Report to Moderator
 Re: Welding Tips for a lousy welder? in reply to seedsntrees, 03-04-2008 19:05:55  
Grind and clean well. Using appropraite rod burn a bead no longer than 1/2 inch. Imediatley set down welder and grab small to medium head ball peen hammer, peening the weld (ball end) quickly and continuously as the bead looses color. Continue peening for 20-30 seconds after color loss. Repeat until finshed. The tapping actually helps the cooling molecules aline in a more organized array which helps reduce the risk of cracking as the piece cools. Proffessionals will stick the entire piece in a forge to reduce the temperature differential between the work and the weld so the cooling process happens to the entire piece rather than to a small portion of a cold piece, which is what causes the cracks.

Good luck!

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Dave Sherburne NY

03-05-2008 06:24:33




Report to Moderator
 Re: Welding Tips for a lousy welder? in reply to Matt_In_Michigan, 03-04-2008 19:05:55  
If you want to try again, sloooow down, weld a short section let it cool completely then do it I mean really take your time.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
old

03-04-2008 21:21:51




Report to Moderator
 Re: Welding Tips for a lousy welder? in reply to Matt_In_Michigan, 03-04-2008 19:05:55  
Mig and cast don't mix unless you have an oven to heat it in. Plus manifolds are hard to weld no matter what because of all the carbon etc that gets into the cast. I would say buy a new one or take it to a michine shop



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
james rumph

03-04-2008 19:22:44




Report to Moderator
 Re: Welding Tips for a lousy welder? in reply to Matt_In_Michigan, 03-04-2008 19:05:55  

When you weld cast iron you weld it with "nickle rod" . You drill a small hole at the end of the crack to stop it from spreading ferther.

OR

You use a torch and braze it closed , which is a very good way of doing it .

A mig welder with standard wire won't penatrate like you need , plus the weld is so hard.

Nickle rod and brazing rod are soft and they will expand and contrat with the manifold as it heat cycles .

You could always find a local welding shop and have them do it .

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
[Options]  [Printer Friendly]  [Posting Help]  [Return to Forum]   [Log in to Reply]

Hop to:


TRACTOR PARTS TRACTOR MANUALS
We sell tractor parts!  We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today. [ About Us ]

Home  |  Forums


Copyright © 1997-2023 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters

Website Accessibility Policy