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Restoration & Repair Tips Board

synthetic on a rebuild

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arthur ward

06-28-2007 08:50:49




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has anyone tried synthetic oil in their antique tractors yet? i am thinking of doing this after breakin on my engine overhaul(49 8n).
thanks




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souNdguy

06-28-2007 12:16:07




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 Re: synthetic on a rebuild in reply to arthur ward, 06-28-2007 08:50:49  
i wouldn't reccomend synthetic on an old engine.. however one that has been rebuilt with new seals and new gaskets.. .. I can't see it hurting it you added it after break in period.

On the flip side.. I don't like extended changes.. oil is removed to get rid of contaminates... IE.. Even if my oil would last for 4 ys in an N.. I'm changing it at 6mos.. so I get no real benefit from a synthetic.

If you live in an ultra cold area.. I can sorta see some benefits.. etc.

it's your money either way.

Soundguy

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arthur ward

06-28-2007 13:00:34




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 Re: synthetic on a rebuild in reply to souNdguy, 06-28-2007 12:16:07  
sound, up here in wisconsin it gets cold in the winter, need the n for plowing and that is where synthetic would help cold starts.

on the other hand, if i went with 10w40 mobile...i could use it year round and just change it every spring. summer use is around 25 hours and winter is around 15 hours.

now, i read on the net that any bottle of oil that says "energy saving" should not be used because it does NOT have the additive package(zinc & something else). these prevent excessive wear. the oil companies are doing this without public knowledge. these additives that they are taking out play havic on catalytic converters so they would rather kill engines. it is known as "green" engine oil. better fuel mileage but shorter engine life. i notice castrol 5w30 has it on the label. i use sae 30 castrol up to this point. and, the bypass oil system on these tractors is not good either so why not use a synthetic that has less impurities?

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soundguy

06-28-2007 13:51:20




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 Re: synthetic on a rebuild in reply to arthur ward, 06-28-2007 13:00:34  
energy savings also means it will most likely be a 0w or 5w oil.. which aint good on these n's. However on a fresh rebuild.. 10/40 is probably ok..

If ya want zinc.. zddp.. etc.. get a "C" rated diesel oil.. etc..

Soundguy



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arthur ward

06-30-2007 20:16:56




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 Re: synthetic on a rebuild in reply to soundguy, 06-28-2007 13:51:20  
stump, how much is 15w50 a quart? or a 5 quart container?



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glennster

06-28-2007 14:07:41




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 Re: synthetic on a rebuild in reply to soundguy, 06-28-2007 13:51:20  
i dont run synthetic in any of my old tractors. he old iron had a lot looser bearing tolerances as opposed to the new engines of today. most of em ran 30 wt in the summer, 10 wt in the winter. the synthetic is pretty light. if you are changing the oil fall and spring, i dont see the cost justifyed in the synthetic. for winter starting, if i need one to go, i use a block heater to warm it up. they also have a magnetic heater that will stick right on the oil pan. its your choice.

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soundguy

06-28-2007 22:01:12




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 Re: synthetic on a rebuild in reply to glennster, 06-28-2007 14:07:41  
Since he is on a fresh rebuild.. he's probably ok.. if perhaps 'over doing' it a tad..

Won't hurt much besides his pocket book..

soundguy



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arthur ward

06-28-2007 14:53:22




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 Re: synthetic on a rebuild in reply to glennster, 06-28-2007 14:07:41  
good point, but if i go 10w40 synthetic and change every spring i still couldn't put enough hours on it. once a year change with synthetic vs. twice a year with conventional oil? i think the cost is around the same then.

what do you think about front seal leakage with synthetic after new 8n motor is broken in with conventional?



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soundguy

06-28-2007 22:00:12




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 Re: synthetic on a rebuild in reply to arthur ward, 06-28-2007 14:53:22  
I think the N front and rear main seal pretty much leak no matter what... You could probably pack the oil pan with grease and the darn things would leak.. neophrene or rope..

etc..

Soundguy



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arthur ward

06-29-2007 06:07:25




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 Re: synthetic on a rebuild in reply to soundguy, 06-28-2007 22:00:12  
soundguy, i definately won't have enough hours on the engine until spring if i choose to go with synthetic. i changed the breakin oil at around 5 hours and it now has sae 30 castrol in it. this fall i will change it to maybe a 10w30 for winter use. i know that some people balk at the synthetic thing in regarding this tractor, but it cost alot of money to rebuild her and i am looking at long term for sure. and quite honestly, the comparitive prices for oil changes and irrelavent to me. i can save the money in other ways(what a total of $12?). thanks guys

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soundguy

06-29-2007 13:21:07




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 Re: synthetic on a rebuild in reply to arthur ward, 06-29-2007 06:07:25  
Keep in mind that these old girls go 50 ys on plain old oil and below average manitenance.

still.. it's your nickle..

Soundguy



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Stumpalump

06-29-2007 15:36:20




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 Re: synthetic on a rebuild in reply to soundguy, 06-29-2007 13:21:07  
Hey Soundguy,
Did't Dell or Bob talk about the oil pumps in the 8N needing a certain viscosity to keep the oil pump primed and happy? I personally use moble 1 red and add a quart of thick Lucas oil stabilizer in my 51 8N.
Stump



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soundguy

06-29-2007 20:12:04




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 Re: synthetic on a rebuild in reply to Stumpalump, 06-29-2007 15:36:20  
As with anything.. it's a wear issue.

I wouldn't want to put 0w, 5w, or 10w, oil in my N that has a good amount of wear on it.

On a newly rebuilt one that is back to specs.. 10w40 is probably ok.

Soundguy



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arthur ward

06-29-2007 19:06:28




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 Re: synthetic on a rebuild in reply to Stumpalump, 06-29-2007 15:36:20  
thank you stump! that is what i was looking for but didn't want to give it away!
I called castrol to get their sae 30 viscosity at 40C and they "can't tell you that". nor could they give me it for sae 40. like it is some big secret formula.
still the castrol sae 30 has to be at least 100 viscosity at ambient 70F temps. it pumps good on start up...only about 2 or 3 seconds for the gauge to read and THAT SHOULD BE AFTER BEARING LUBE. so if 10w40 synthetic has a 98 viscosity at 40C then i would tend to believe it would "not lose prime". wouldn't ya think? stump...why add the lucas? do you think that the redline would lose prime?

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arthur ward

06-29-2007 19:13:39




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 Re: synthetic on a rebuild in reply to arthur ward, 06-29-2007 19:06:28  
oh...mobil emailed me back cuz i asked about the engine and synthetic. they said:
"Thank you for your inquiry,

Mobil does not recommend synthetics for pre-1970 applications mainly because of the possible incompatiability issues with gasket and seals. Rope type gaskets have been known to leak with synthetic motor oils, so we don't recommend Mobil1. Stay with Mobil Clean High Mileage or Mobil Clean 5000 motor oils."
so that is the mobile red you talk about i assume?

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Stumpalump

06-29-2007 19:30:22




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 Re: synthetic on a rebuild in reply to arthur ward, 06-29-2007 19:13:39  
The moble 1 I use has a red cap it's 15w 50. So I add the lucas to thicken it up plus it makes the oil sticky. Good for engines that sit for long periods. While were on the subject of synthetics I must add that synthetic is king. Period. It has the ability to creep into tight spaces like osmosis or capilarry action.Problem is it also has the ability to creep out of tight places like engine seals and gaskets. I'd try it and see if you can live with a little drip. One more thing about synthetics is that mobil one and some of the high end racing synthetics are the only true synthetics. The rest are ok but they are some kind of man made crap and can only be called synthetics because of a law suit they won agaist mobil and the racing oil producers. So the best bang for the buck in a synthetic would be Moble 1 or Amsoil if you can get a deal on it.

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arthur ward

06-29-2007 20:53:24




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 Re: synthetic on a rebuild in reply to Stumpalump, 06-29-2007 19:30:22  
ok, i found the 15w50
viscosity of 131 at 40C and 18 at 100C.
hths at 4.5 and ash at 1.2
this actually seems better for a tractor i suppose.
still, the 40C and 100C viscositys are so much better than a sae 30 for summer use that ford recommended back in the day.
whatcha think about that?



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arthur ward

06-29-2007 20:46:42




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 Re: synthetic on a rebuild in reply to Stumpalump, 06-29-2007 19:30:22  
why would you go with the 15w50? are ya runnin the tractor in the desert?
that seems odd to me. i hear alot of 15w40 but not 50.
10w40 mobile clean 5000 has a viscosity of 14.55 at 100C. that is a conventional oil. compare that to 11.5 for castrol sae 30.
10w40 mobile high mileage has a viscosity of 14.71 and it is a full synthetic. still, that should give better oil pressure than castrol 30.
whatcha think?

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Stumpalump

06-30-2007 08:13:17




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 Re: synthetic on a rebuild in reply to arthur ward, 06-29-2007 20:46:42  
15w 50 is only a rating that can be compaired to regular oil. It's not regular oil, put some on some steel when you are drilling and see for yourself.If you put 15w50 Mobil one in an engine and went to Alaska it would flow fine. 5w30 conventional oil would be like tar. Why do I use 15w 50? It's world renound as the best oil on the planet. Marine engines will extend warrenty years if you use it,Hot roders and racers use it,4 stroke dirt bike racers use it and I have used it for at least 15 or 20 years in all lawn mowers boats,tractors,cars( I use the thinner stuff in newer cars) I have never had an engine failer due to oil. I beat the he11, no I tried to kill a modified honda XR250 in Arkansaw heat for three years on that stuff. I had a 16 ft glastron ski boat with a 4Cyl GM Mercruser. The problem was I like to slalom faster than average and this happened to be W.O.T on this boat. My wife or freinds would push the throttle all the way down and leave it.I did this for at least 8or 10 years with that boat during the long hot Arkansaw summers. All day saterday,sunday and tuesday and thurs day nights most years. I sold that boat running like a top and never did any thing but change worn out outdrives. Mobil One 15w50 is king.Period. One more.My first new lawn mower was a 3.5 hp self propelled snapper. Same long Arkansaw hot summers with long growing seasons. 13 years and I burned a valve. Still had almost all the hone marks on the cylinder wall when I had it apart to fix a burnt valve. Heck I even had the governnor jacked way up on it. I'm telling you guys that this oil worked for me and a lot of others,hard.

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