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Phosphorus Aicd

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Bob Underwood

08-18-2006 04:07:12

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I have read where it is good for cleaning before paint. Where can the acid be purchased.
Thanks for any replys

Bob

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Brad_bb

08-21-2006 12:46:44

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Re: Phosphorus Aicd in reply to Bob Underwood, 08-18-2006 04:07:12

Most automotive paint manufacturer"s have their own version. I use PPG. Be sure to follow the paint manufacturer"s directions. It"s commonly referred to as metal prep. Use chemical gloves, I apply it with a scotchbrite pad and use it for some scrubbing action. Rinse thoroughly, dry with compressed air, paper shop towels, fans - whatever it takes to dry them quick. Then get them sealed with a good epoxy sealer primer.

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Bob Underwood

08-18-2006 09:20:55

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Re: Phosphorus Aicd in reply to Bob Underwood, 08-18-2006 04:07:12

Thanks for setting me straight. I have the POR version.

Bob

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CNKS

08-18-2006 13:16:13

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Re: Phosphorus Aicd in reply to Bob Underwood, 08-18-2006 09:20:55

The link is the POR 15 website -- not sure which product you mean, they have several. Everything from the etching Metal Ready to the heavy rust converters -- they call that rust preventative "paint". I am about the last person that should be giving info about POR 15, as I remove rust manually, and sometimes use Picklex, or "Must for Rust" sold by Home Depot, but the Metal Ready seems about the same.

POR 15

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TimV

08-19-2006 07:31:49

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Re: Phosphorus Aicd in reply to CNKS, 08-18-2006 13:16:13

CNKS: I'm hardly an expert myself, but I have used POR's products a fair amount with good results. The basic drill is to clean the loose stuff off with a wire wheel or something similar, then clean with their Marine Clean, wet down for 10-15 minutes with Metal Ready, rinse with water, dry and apply the Rust Preventative Paint. The theory is that you're converting the surface rust and then forming a moisture-tight barrier against further oxidation. Attached is a picture of the frame of my '56 Chevy 3/4-ton after the above treatment. While this old girl is setting inside and thus wouldn't be expected to rust further, my dump truck project has had the same treatment and sets outside with the frame exposed and shows no signs of rust-through. While I agree full manual rust removal is a good goal, it still won't stop rust from re-occurring, and is also very difficult on something with as many nooks and crannies as a truck frame. I've never used the Metal Ready as a rust remover--I just use it to convert what's left after manual removal of everything I can reach.

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CNKS

08-19-2006 08:29:27

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Re: Phosphorus Aicd in reply to TimV, 08-19-2006 07:31:49

I don't disagree, and if I did automotive restoration, POR 15 on the frame would certainly get consideration. And, I am aware of the problems in removing rust from the nooks and crannies of pieces that I don't want to sand blast. Those areas get a good dose of Picklex. I probably manually remove 99% of the rust. Everything is then coated with epoxy primer which is waterproof and will prevent rust from coming back. I don't store anything outside -- yet.

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TimV

08-19-2006 08:49:52

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Re: Phosphorus Aicd in reply to CNKS, 08-19-2006 08:29:27

'I don't store anything outside--yet' :-) Unfortunately, I've ran up against the Law of Cubic Stuff, which states that the stuff you have will expand to fill the available space! A 25 x 32 2-story garage with lean-tos on two sides is only enough to keep part of my "stuff" undercover, and unfotunately more than I'd like ends up setting out in the weather. I've been paring down my collection, but it's a painful process for a scrounger like me to let ANYTHING that might potentially have the slightest future value go to the scrap heap, which results in my back yard looking suspiciously like a scrap heap itself.....

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TimV

08-18-2006 06:27:19

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Re: Phosphorus Aicd in reply to Bob Underwood, 08-18-2006 04:07:12

Bob: As CNKS mentioned, phosphoric acid is the active ingredient in several rust-neutralizing products. POR-15's version is called Metal Ready, and is used to lightly etch clean metal before painting. It can be also used to neutralize surface rust on seasoned metal before top-coating. Naval Jelly is a phosphoric-acid-based compound used to remove rust and neutralize what can't be removed. Most any hardware store will have Naval Jelly. Be prepared to use plenty of elbow grease as well, but it does a better job than scrubbing or brushing alone, at least in my experience.

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CNKS

08-18-2006 05:52:52

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Re: Phosphorus Aicd in reply to Bob Underwood, 08-18-2006 04:07:12

Phosphoric acid is not a cleaning chemical. It can be used for etching, rust conversion, and rust prevention depending on the formulation. One of the best rust prevention compounds is Picklex 20, it will also convert light rust. Do a search for Picklex 20 or rust converters. One size does not fit all. Formulations such as ospho and POR 15 are for those who do not want to remove the rust mechanically, it converts rust and theoretically at least keeps it from coming back. "Metal prep" is for use on clean bare steel to etch before painting, if the metal is sanded there is no need for it. Other details are too numerous to mention.

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driz

08-26-2006 22:48:40

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Re: Phosphorus Aicd in reply to CNKS, 08-18-2006 05:52:52

PARKS makes some good phosphoric acid etch that sells for around $8/ qt. I use it when I don't want to use my $100 / gal piclkex which is quite often for this sort of stuff. I honestly don't see much if any difference between the 2 in ho how they perform. Try Home Deopt or True Value.Lowes used to carry it but dropped the parks line due to a dispute a couple years back. It comes in a green squarish shaped bottle like battery acid comes in and is bright green in color

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GeorgeH

08-27-2006 11:18:35

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Re: Phosphorus Aicd in reply to driz, 08-26-2006 22:48:40

What I bought at Home Depot was in a round quart bottle (Jasco brand).

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GeorgeH

08-27-2006 11:17:17

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Re: Phosphorus Aicd in reply to driz, 08-26-2006 22:48:40

What I bought at Home Depot was in a round quart bottle (Jasco brand).

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