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Tractor Pulling Discussion Forum

How to figure compression?

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T Puller

11-14-2007 05:25:19




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Is their any formulas or equations that are used to figure out compression. I have a puller with increased compression, but I want to get more compression. I have a couple of different options to increase my compression, I just want to see what option would be best. If anyone can answer this or lead me to someone who can that would be great.




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High Octane

11-21-2007 14:33:24




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 Re: How to figure compression? in reply to T Puller, 11-14-2007 05:25:19  
Sounds like a plan to me! HAHA!! Happy Holidays!



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High Octane

11-21-2007 06:36:18




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 Re: How to figure compression? in reply to T Puller, 11-14-2007 05:25:19  
Guido, I take the final compression ratio, example, 10.5 to 1. multiply that by 20, equals the approximate cyl pressure for that cyl specs. I figure, the 20, means 20 psi,, which is 1 to 1,, broke down to a simpler form, that "? to 1" has to mean something mathmatically,, so I took known factors from my old engine,, did all the math,, figured it to be 14.7 to 1. When I ran the cyl pressure test at cranking speed,, I got 294-295 psi of cyl pressure at test. I took the cyl pressure divided by compression ratio, and came up with an even 20. So I figure, 20, means 20 psi per point of mechanical compression ratio,, 1 to 1 is 20 psi,, 1.5 to 1 is 30 psi, and so on and so on,,, Automotive engines, naturally aspirated, wont run with that much cyl pressure,, they will ping detonate,, blow up.. The rpms shake the cyl apart,, so they have to decrease cyl pressure to make it run well, on lower octane fuels,, overlap, or lobe separation angle, allows them to do this,,, and still have the high mechanical ratio,,, but a lower actual cyl pressure to fool the engine in thinking it has a lower compression ratio. Nothing I mentioned above, is writtn in stone so far,,, but if you think about it,, a tractor engine,,, is pretty simple,, the cams dont have overlap in stock form,, and when the compression ratio is increased,, as long as the test is done to know where it was to begin with,, the actual cyl pressure for a mechanical ratio can be recorded and a formula to figure that is very possible. Belive it,,,, or not?? LOL.

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guido

11-21-2007 12:53:10




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 Re: How to figure compression? in reply to High Octane, 11-21-2007 06:36:18  
Hey High Octane

I believe it !
But I would much wrather get my hands in the the engines as i've for years and let the engineers do the math and not worry to mooch about formulas. What do you think?


GUIDO.



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High Octane

11-20-2007 14:22:20




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 Re: How to figure compression? in reply to T Puller, 11-14-2007 05:25:19  
Looks like theres more than one way to skin a cat! LOL!



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High Octane

11-19-2007 15:07:27




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 Re: How to figure compression? in reply to Richard Noggin, 11-14-2007 05:25:19  

pulller person said: (quoted from post at 20:34:04 11/18/07) I don't know about figuring comp. but the formula for cubes is b x b x s x .7854 not 3.14. Example 404 jd is 4.25 x 4.25 x 4.75 x .7854 = 67.38 x 6 =404.30


Looks like both formulas work. Both come up to the same result.
4.25 X 4.25 x 3.141592654 X 4.75 =269.5288322 divided by 4 = 67.38 X 6 = 404.3082483 ci.

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guido

11-20-2007 13:48:53




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 Re: How to figure compression? in reply to High Octane, 11-19-2007 15:07:27  
Hey High Octane

Here is another formula. Bore squared x stroke x # of cylinders.For an engine with 4.25 bore and a 4.75 stroke: 2.125x2.125x3.1416x4.75x6=404.30917



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pulller person

11-18-2007 19:34:04




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 Re: How to figure compression? in reply to T Puller, 11-14-2007 05:25:19  
I don't know about figuring comp. but the formula for cubes is b x b x s x .7854 not 3.14. Example 404 jd is 4.25 x 4.25 x 4.75 x .7854 = 67.38 x 6 =404.30



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mlpankey

11-14-2007 21:50:32




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 Re: How to figure compression? in reply to T Puller, 11-14-2007 05:25:19  
i find ki8eth blacks piston web sight very helpfull in all formulas just click on calculators



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High Octane

11-14-2007 15:23:55




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 Re: How to figure compression? in reply to T Puller, 11-14-2007 05:25:19  
5 to 1 is 100 psi,

6 to 1 is 120 psi,
7 to 1 is 140 psi,
8 to 1 is 160 psi

9 to 1 is 180 psi

10 to 1 is 200 psi

11to 1 is 220psi

12 to 1 is 240 psi

13 to 1 is 260psi

14 to 1 is 280psi

15 to 1 is 300psi.
At test, this is what I belive a cyl would test when nothing like overlap doesnt interfere with the cyl pressure. Head shaving, domed pistons, better cam profiles, all affects the final test numbers,, say like it tested 115 psi on this chart, it would be 5.75 to 1 to fill in the inbetween gaps. I can belive a 5 to 1 engine testing 100psi,,,, I can belive a 15 to 1 engine testing 300psi,,,, You would never test a V8 engine with 300 psi of cyl pressure at 15 to 1. naturally aspirated. You wont find one. You will however, find engines that have 15 to 1 ratio, but only test 200 psi. The overlaps in the cams deflate the cyl pressure by allowing the vacuum charged air/fuel mix to escape out the exhuast, at the same time,, so if you had an engine that had alot of cyl pressure, but you cant find a fuel to run it, the option os the overlapped cam to deflate it, to lower cyl pressures enough to a resonable level, so it will burn on less octane, and not blow the heads off it by detonation or preignition.

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guido

11-14-2007 13:51:03




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 Re: How to figure compression? in reply to T Puller, 11-14-2007 05:25:19  
Hey T Puller.
Cylinder pressure is determined by the compression ratio and piston compression ring placement among other things. 9 to 1 ratio usually has less compression than a 10 to 1 ratio.
Here is a formula that may help you,
example:Cyl. cu. in. 129. compression ratio 15 to 1: 129/15=8.6 cu.in.The 8.6 is the clearance/volume between the piston crown and the underside of the cylinder head. If you know two of the values you can find the third one.
Hope it helps GUIDO

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High Octane

11-14-2007 09:00:17




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 Re: How to figure compression? in reply to T Puller, 11-14-2007 05:25:19  
[quote="High Octane"](quoted from post at 07:37:00 11/14/07)
Bore x bore X 3.14 x stroke, divided by numer of cyl= ci for one cyl,
Correction,,,, bore x bore x 3.14 x stroke, divided by 4= cubic inch per cyl. to know total cubic inch, multiply that answer by the number of cyls. But, your only interested in one cyls specs to figure ratio. Ci per cyl x 16.39 to go to CC's for that cyl, assuming its a flat top piston at 0 below the deck surface. If the piston is dished or domed, you need to know how many cc's the dome or dish gives, or takes away,, if it gives, its increasing the cc volume, if it takes away, it decreases the cc volume. Head gasket thickeness, just like a short bore to figure ci, only replace the "Stroke" figure with the thickness of the gasket,, convert to cc's and add to the cyl totat cc total, after the dish/dome volumes are figured in, to the cyl total. This gives you the info to figure the block specs needed,,, now you have to figure the cyl head's combustion chamber volume. A few shot siringes full of tranny fluid and record the totals, and then add that to the cyl cc volume total,, then divide the cyl/head cc total, by the cyl head cc and it will give you your mechanical ratio for that design or as close as you have figured it in the measurement. [email protected]

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High Octane

11-14-2007 06:37:00




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 Re: How to figure compression? in reply to jpl, 11-14-2007 05:25:19  
Bore x bore X 3.14 x stroke, divided by numer of cyl= ci for one cyl,
answer X 16.39 will convert it to CC's This is where you need to know your changes,,, if its a flat top to a dome, or you have put in longer or shorter rods,, you need to know or measure how much difference, so you need to cc the piston domes, and the cyl head compresson chamber. Once you know the results and know what cc your head and piston domes are, you can continue,,,

cyl CC's + the cyl head, head gasket CC, divided by head/piston.gasket cc volume, and that will give the mechanical compression ratio. Cyl pressure,, well, there is a way to convert compresion ratio to cyl pressure,,, but, thats too controversial to work with,,, so will leave that alone for now,,, Hope this helps.

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